JD Power ranks Tesla last in Quality Control Study

[drtimhill]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that, so I’m not sure why you feel like making such a statement, other than you’re simply making excuses on teslas behalf.

Again, I didn't claim I "knew" anything, I made it perfectly clear I was putting forward a speculative hypothesis to explain some of the curious rankings of the results (not just Tesla). Nor did I make any excuses for Tesla, in fact the very first thing I said in my post was that Tesla do have quality issues.

Although Consumer Reports has methodology issues also, it is interesting that in their latest rankings, Tesla was 11, Toyota 12, and Dodge 21 (out of a total of 33 makers). A complete inversion of the J.D. Power results.

It is also worth noting that J.D. Power generate significant revenue from selling the results of surveys such as these for use by auto makers in brand advertising. And Tesla do not advertise.

You also state "It’s more likely all car buyers check their vehicle for issues equally because no one wants a damaged new car. Regardless of how minor." How is that any less speculative than my hypothesis?

 

[john85775]

I disagree. There are numerous flawless delivery experiences associated with Model Y. People see what they want to see and ignore that they don't. Yes, I'm sure that goes for me too. Drama gets headlines and headlines get clicks. Again, my experience over the last two years of ownership has been wonderful. Can't speak for anyone else.

Dan

The data doesn’t agree with your anecdotes.

 

[AMPd]

Again, I didn't claim I "knew" anything, I made it perfectly clear I was putting forward a speculative hypothesis to explain some of the curious rankings of the results (not just Tesla). Nor did I make any excuses for Tesla, in fact the very first thing I said in my post was that Tesla do have quality issues.

Although Consumer Reports has methodology issues also, it is interesting that in their latest rankings, Tesla was 11, Toyota 12, and Dodge 21 (out of a total of 33 makers). A complete inversion of the J.D. Power results.

It is also worth noting that J.D. Power generate significant revenue from selling the results of surveys such as these for use by auto makers in brand advertising. And Tesla do not advertise.

You also state "It’s more likely all car buyers check their vehicle for issues equally because no one wants a damaged new car. Regardless of how minor." How is that any less speculative than my hypothesis?

Actually you were making an excuse, by saying Tesla buyers are more likely to check for issues than other car buyers you’re basically trying to explain why Tesla ranked so low not by using the fact that teslas quality is complete garbage but rather a made up notion that Tesla buyers are somehow more inclined to look for quality issues over other brand buyers... which by the way just proves the fact that there are issues with quality. If there weren’t then people wouldn’t be finding any and Tesla wouldn’t rank so low


Either way I hope this is the thing that kicks Elon into taking some kind of action to resolve the problem, because customer complains haven’t done a thing to change anything.

 

[drtimhill]

Actually you were making an excuse, by saying Tesla buyers are more likely to check for issues than other car buyers you’re basically trying to explain why Tesla ranked so low not by using the fact that teslas quality is complete garbage

Ah now we get to the bottom of it ... "the fact that teslas quality is complete garbage". How silly of me to discuss things like Consumer Reports vs J.D Power research when you already know the answer. What a waste of time for them to do those surveys when they could have just asked you!!

And so nice to have such an enlightened and fair pronouncement, free of such naughty things as confirmation bias, cherry picking of arguments, and shifting the goal posts. Have you ever considered a career in politics?

 

[NCAviator]

They absolutely need to improve QC. They are so obsessed with meeting quarterly numbers, they deliver the occasional piece of crap. By making deliveries a priority, it provides incentive for service centers to ignore issues which tarnishes the brand. They need to think longer term and correct this culture. There have been some stories on TMC of deliver centers holding vehicles to fix issues prior to delivery so there is hope.

When the Financial Analyst and Stockholder care about quality; then Musk will care. Right now they care more about the number of cars delivered per quarter. What is sad is that most of the reported quality problems. Dirty Fingers on head liner being one example are easy to fix. Even panel gap. Just need a gage. Need to change gloves every hour, etc. Clearly the supervisors on the line don't have any power.

 

[AMPd]

Ah now we get to the bottom of it ... "the fact that teslas quality is complete garbage". How silly of me to discuss things like Consumer Reports vs J.D Power research when you already know the answer. What a waste of time for them to do those surveys when they could have just asked you!!

And so nice to have such an enlightened and fair pronouncement, free of such naughty things as confirmation bias, cherry picking of arguments, and shifting the goal posts. Have you ever considered a career in politics?

Except it is a fact that teslas build quality is downright garbage. Way to make it personal, but I guess it ain’t easy arguing facts.


JD power just confirmed what everyone who isn’t a fanboy already knew.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Except it is a fact that teslas build quality is downright garbage. Way to make it personal, but I guess it ain’t easy arguing facts.


JD power just confirmed what everyone who isn’t a fanboy already knew.

Well, I don't consider myself a "fanboy". Actually, I despise that term. I prefer the term "very satisfied customer". It seems that if you are an actual owner that loves their car and has had wonderful customer service you are automatically a mindless "fanboy". Come on...really?

All I know is what I have experienced. Any issues I have had with the car have been handled professionally, courteously, and in a timely manner. So I guess I'm just one of those people incapable of seeing Tesla's quality as "crap" as you so eloquently put it.

Dan

 

[electracity]

Perhaps the no dealer sales model increases the number of defects that get delivered. Dealers make money fixing defects. Tesla store employees are clearly pressured at times to get the car out the door.

Plus a dealership inventory model allows more time for the dealer to identify problems.

Tesla's actual manufacturing defects may not be much different than traditional car companies.

 

[AMPd]

Well, I don't consider myself a "fanboy". Actually, I despise that term. I prefer the term "very satisfied customer". It seems that if you are an actual owner that loves their car and has had wonderful customer service you are automatically a mindless "fanboy". Come on...really?

All I know is what I have experienced. Any issues I have had with the car have been handled professionally, courteously, and in a timely manner. So I guess I'm just one of those people incapable of seeing Tesla's quality as "crap" as you so eloquently put it.

Dan

So your car did have issues... Kinda what this study is saying. But yeah clearly I’m wrong and everyone who has reported taking delivery of a vehicle that had quality issues is wrong. Tesla makes perfect cars! 0 quality issues!

 

[cdnev]

Perhaps the no dealer sales model increases the number of defects that get delivered. Dealers make money fixing defects. Tesla store employees are clearly pressured at times to get the car out the door.

Plus a dealership inventory model allows more time for the dealer to identify problems.

Tesla's actual manufacturing defects may not be much different than traditional car companies.

This is a key and highly relevant point to this survey result. Dealers have a significant interest in finding defects because they do make money on warranty work. Whether it is body work like adjusting panels or fixing paint scratches and chips, adjusting doors, etc. these things get claimed back to the factory. It is such a big deal, financially, that these old manufacturers send auditors out to review warranty work claims periodically. And you can be sure the people signing off on the warranty claims expenses at the factory will follow-up to track down the sources in production to reduce the warranty costs.

Since Tesla lacks this delivery-end screening, you see these issues as a customer. If Tesla introduced an incentive program at their delivery centers to catch defects this issue would virtually disappear. That means delivery center staff need authority to authorize fixes and charge these back to the source factory line or whatever.

Regardless, I'm still keen to get my first Model S in the near future.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

So your car did have issues... Kinda what this study is saying. But yeah clearly I’m wrong and everyone who has reported taking delivery of a vehicle that had quality issues is wrong. Tesla makes perfect cars! 0 quality issues!

I never said anyone was wrong. You did. I just relayed my experience.

Dan

 

[electricar]

That’s quite a stretch there. Tesla buyers are special, they’re the only ones who check for quality issues. No other car brand buyers check for quality issues. LOL!


This is where the dealership model outshines teslas direct sales model, a dealership can go over the vehicle and fix any issues before it hits the lot, because they are an independent dealer they don’t want to lose customers due to poor quality. Tesla service center employees on the other hand don’t care (not all, but there’s definitely a lot)

I spent 30 years working in high end German car dealerships and can positively say that the dealerships that you are talking about are in some parallel universe from the ones I was at.

 

[electricar]

This is a key and highly relevant point to this survey result. Dealers have a significant interest in finding defects because they do make money on warranty work. Whether it is body work like adjusting panels or fixing paint scratches and chips, adjusting doors, etc. these things get claimed back to the factory. It is such a big deal, financially, that these old manufacturers send auditors out to review warranty work claims periodically. And you can be sure the people signing off on the warranty claims expenses at the factory will follow-up to track down the sources in production to reduce the warranty costs.

Since Tesla lacks this delivery-end screening, you see these issues as a customer. If Tesla introduced an incentive program at their delivery centers to catch defects this issue would virtually disappear. That means delivery center staff need authority to authorize fixes and charge these back to the source factory line or whatever.

Regardless, I'm still keen to get my first Model S in the near future.

The OEMs certainly do audit service departments but it is to find ways to deny warranty claims and doing warranty work without a customer complaint is like sending an invitation for an audit - something few dealers are in a big rush to do.

 

[SO16]

Does Tesla need to improve QC? Yes

Did my Model S in 2017 have flaws? Yes

Did Tesla address those flaws? Yes

Could I buy a vehicle from another manufacturer with better QC? yes

Would I? Not a chance. To me, a Tesla’s positives far outweighs the minor gripes of some paint specs or minor panel misalignment.

Now, again, that doesn’t mean Tesla gets a free pass. But it certainly isn’t a “omg, the sky is falling” as what the media makes it out to be.

 

[AMPd]

I spent 30 years working in high end German car dealerships and can positively say that the dealerships that you are talking about are in some parallel universe from the ones I was at.

To be fair, if you read my post I said they CAN go over the vehicle because they have time as the vehicle hasn’t been sold yet. (In most cases) and it would be in their best interest to sell a vehicle that doesn’t have cosmetic issues from the get go.
Whereas a Tesla service center has no incentive to do that, it’s all up to the people at the service center and how much effort they want to put into their job. That’s why we hear reports of some service centers being awesome with awesome employees and some being terrible with terrible employees.

 

[drtimhill]

Except it is a fact that teslas build quality is downright garbage. Way to make it personal, but I guess it ain’t easy arguing facts.

JD power just confirmed what everyone who isn’t a fanboy already knew.

No, it isn’t a fact, its an opinion .. yours. Sure, J.D. Power agrees with you, but Consumer Reports doesnt. So why do you prefer one over the other? Because it agrees with your opinion. That’s conformation bias, plain and simple. And why did you consider it a “fact” before the J.D. power report came out? Because it’s something you wanted to believe, but that’s an opinion, and that’s all it is, unless you can find unbiased, disinterested, peer-reviewed research to back it up. Which J.D. Power certainly is not, whatever you may think.

I was very clear in my original post that I was stating a pure hypothesis, and that it was my opinion only. You tried to paint that as my expressing it as a fact, when I did no such thing, and then tried to claim (hypocritically) that your opinions were actually facts.

However, as Churchill once observed, a fanatic is someone who cant change his mind and wont change the subject. I see little point is discussing this with someone who appears to meet this definition admirably.

 

[electricjib]

I honestly think that number is low. It’s probably far worst.

Mine had:

-multiple panel alignment issues
-water ingress on both sides
-door panel driver side not installed properly and loose
-wind ingress due to doors not being installed properly
-they forgot the moisture blockers for door cameras
-rear camera failures
-screen going blank while driving
-battery pops while driving

all in all they bought it back after the piece of *sugar* sat in service for 2 months.

 

[AMPd]

No, it isn’t a fact, its an opinion .. yours. Sure, J.D. Power agrees with you, but Consumer Reports doesnt. So why do you prefer one over the other? Because it agrees with your opinion. That’s conformation bias, plain and simple. And why did you consider it a “fact” before the J.D. power report came out? Because it’s something you wanted to believe, but that’s an opinion, and that’s all it is, unless you can find unbiased, disinterested, peer-reviewed research to back it up. Which J.D. Power certainly is not, whatever you may think.

I was very clear in my original post that I was stating a pure hypothesis, and that it was my opinion only. You tried to paint that as my expressing it as a fact, when I did no such thing, and then tried to claim (hypocritically) that your opinions were actually facts.

However, as Churchill once observed, a fanatic is someone who cant change his mind and wont change the subject. I see little point is discussing this with someone who appears to meet this definition admirably.

No, it isn’t a fact, its an opinion .. yours. Sure, J.D. Power agrees with you, but Consumer Reports doesnt. So why do you prefer one over the other? Because it agrees with your opinion. That’s conformation bias, plain and simple. And why did you consider it a “fact” before the J.D. power report came out? Because it’s something you wanted to believe, but that’s an opinion, and that’s all it is, unless you can find unbiased, disinterested, peer-reviewed research to back it up. Which J.D. Power certainly is not, whatever you may think.

I was very clear in my original post that I was stating a pure hypothesis, and that it was my opinion only. You tried to paint that as my expressing it as a fact, when I did no such thing, and then tried to claim (hypocritically) that your opinions were actually facts.

However, as Churchill once observed, a fanatic is someone who cant change his mind and wont change the subject. I see little point is discussing this with someone who appears to meet this definition admirably.

which consumer reports are you talking about? The one that at one point could not recommend the model 3 due to multiple issues?
Or are you talking about the consumers on here reporting all the issues they’ve had with brand new cars?
or maybe the class action lawsuit by consumers regarding the crap paint quality?

Taking all that into consideration if you still don’t think it’s a fact that Tesla has build quality issues then you’re right there’s no point in discussing this further.

 

[cdnev]

The OEMs certainly do audit service departments but it is to find ways to deny warranty claims and doing warranty work without a customer complaint is like sending an invitation for an audit - something few dealers are in a big rush to do.

Agreed. However, the dealers do have a certain number of labour hours allocated to check over each new vehicle, depending on the model, for pre-delivery preparation. The number of hours are specified by and billed back to the factory. Normally this would cover things like body work (scratches and dents, paint repairs, etc.) due to shipping issues. Sometimes the car will be put up on the hoist and various bolts, etc. tightened up after being shaken around during the trip on a boat or train. If parts are missing or must be replaced during the check, these are billed to the factory. This is all done before a customer ever sees their new car.

This kind of process may be what Tesla needs to establish at delivery centres with appropriate incentives and monitoring.

 

[electricar]

Removing the plastic coverings from seats, carpets, etc along with a checklist of items to look at was always part of the Pre-Delivery Inspection process at the dealerships where I worked. Since the work order for this paid very little some of the mechanics did a half-assed job at best ( some however were very conscientious - these were the ones who later went on to become shop foreman or manager ). Removing the huge white plastic bag the car was shipped in and a thorough detailing seemed to be the extent of the PDI when my car was delivered so I think you are right that Tesla is lacking in this area and needs to address the problem. Coming last in the JD Power initial quality survey is not acceptable and a more rigorous PDI would help a lot and probably even save the company money versus having to deal with warranty claims.