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JdeMO for the Roadster?

AEdennis

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,713
937
@dpeilow Tony has a 1.5 from one of our illustrious members in his shop now for this and when that member returns to Southern California, he has another willing volunteer to take its place.

Looks like he is working on it. (And for the B Class electric too...)
 

AEdennis

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,713
937
@TonyWilliams is traveling around installing and building the JdeMO in a bunch of 2nd Gen RAV4EVs right now.

So, I'm not sure his timing on the project for the Roadster. But with the new battery coming for the 2.x cars, higher speed charging becomes a necessity.
 

mpt

Electrics are back
Oct 15, 2008
1,746
197
Warren, New Jersey, United States
Call to Action for JdeMO

I just received word from Tony that they're getting going with the Roadster. In case anyone's not aware, Tony and his team have built CHAdeMO adapters for RAV4EVs and, after spending an afternoon with him chatting and looking over the unit whilst he installed it on a friends car, I was really impressed by the workmanship and the thought that went into the design - it is no hack!

Here's what he said:

We have begun work on a Roadster 1.5, and we need the following:

1) Roadster 2.0 / 2.5 for testing in Southern California (and a 3.0 when one is available).

2) Deposit holders to make the project a "go". If you have buddies that may be interested, please spread the word.
3) Spread the word on the TMC forum to gathering interested parties.

We have quite successfully completed this project on the 2012-2014 Tesla powered Toyota RAV4 EV, and will would like to bring this project to production status in the coming year for the Roadster. We need the support of the Roadster community, as we can't devote the professional time and resources otherwise.

****************
JdeMO for DC quick charging of the Tesla Roadster FAQ's:

1) How fast will the Roadster be able to charge?

Answer: It will charge at approximately 300-400 volts DC at up to 125 amps, or about 40-50kW. That means that it can charge from 20% to 80% of the battery usable capacity in approximately 45-55 minutes. The Roadster battery has a capacity of about 56kWh when new (no degradation). The pending upgraded battery from Tesla is 70kWh and will require over an hour to charge.

2) Will I be able to use the Tesla Supercharger network?

Answer: No.

3) What kind of chargers can I use?

Answer: You will still be able to use the existing Roadster plug for charging, and additionally will also be able to also use any CHAdeMO charge station anywhere in the world (but not both at the same time). CHAdeMO is commonly known as the same quick charger used for the Nissan LEAF, KIA Soul EV or Mitsubishi iMiev.
As of late 2015, there are over 10,000 CHAdeMO chargers worldwide, with about 1500 in the USA. It is the only official DC charge standard in Japan, and an official DC charge standard (with CCS Combo 2) in EU countries.
You specifically will NOT be able to use the Tesla Supercharger system, nor will it work at CCS Combo1 or CCS Combo2 chargers used by GM Spark EV, BMW i3 and Volkswagon eGolf. (Note: BMW i3 uses CHAdeMO in Japan).

4) Where are these CHAdeMO chargers located?

Answer: We recommend using http://www.PlugShare.com or http://www.chademo.com to find a station.

5) Will JdeMO damage the car in any way?

Answer: No, If operating as designed. But, increasing the charge rate to any battery that has ever been designed in the history of mankind will likely shorten its lifespan.

6) Will it void my warranty?

Answer: It should not void any warranty, however we do not have control of how any auto manufacturer will likely handle a warranty claim. In all likelihood, any battery failure would likely be blamed on any product connected to the battery, no matter how unlikely it actually did damage. Therefore, each JdeMO sale will require a "hold harmless" agreement that indemnifies Quick Charge Power LLC from any claim.
Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used. The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.
Like the Magnuson-Moss Act that protects consumers, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.
Should something go wrong, the warranty provider will need to determine the cause of the problem. The Federal Trade Commission says, “The manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.” That means if the dealer can prove (the burden is on the dealer) the problem was caused by the wrong viscosity or a poor quality oil filter, your warranty can be denied. Warranty protection would still be in effect for other parts of the cars.

7) Will there be a warranty on the JdeMO?

Answer: All Quick Charge Power products offer a one year limited warranty.

8) Will it be possible to remove JdeMO on a lease return car?

Answer: Yes, however we don't believe that any Roadsters were leased.
{Updated 11/20/2015} Answer: Yes, If any Roadster is leased, it won't be a problem to remove the hardware at lease turn in (as can also be done for leased RAV4 EVs). You'll probably want to sell the JdeMO equipment separately, anyway.

9) Do I need to remove JdeMO to have normal service or maintenance performed?

Answer: Absolutely not. We specifically do not want you handling, modifying, repairing or in any way changing JdeMO except to recharge your Roadster from a CHAdeMO charger. If you need to remove JdeMO for any reason, contact Quick Charge Power for instructions.
WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN KILL. DO NOT TOUCH, MODIFY, HANDLE, REPAIR OR CHANGE JdeMO IN ANY WAY.

10) Can I charge with a CHAdeMO charger and the Roadster / J1772 plug at the same time?

Answer: No.

11) Can I install JdeMO myself?

Answer: Absolutely not. We specifically do not want you handling, modifying, repairing or in any way changing JdeMO except to recharge your Rav4 EV from a CHAdeMO charger. If you need to remove JdeMO for any reason, contact Quick Charge Power for instructions.
WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN KILL. DO NOT TOUCH, MODIFY, HANDLE, REPAIR OR CHANGE JdeMO IN ANY WAY.

12) Can my local Tesla Service Center install JdeMO?

Answer: Yes.
{Updated 11/20/2015}: Yes, the service center can install the equipment as they are certified and safe to work on high voltage equipment. Will the service center install the equipment? That's between you and your service techs.

13) How long will it take to install?

Answer: Up to four hours.

14) Will JdeMO be able to power my house through the CHAdeMO plug?

Answer: Yes, it will be compatible with CHAdeMO, therefore with appropriate external equipment, it may work. Obviously, we cannot guess how future equipment may be designed or operate.

15) I have heard that CHAdeMO in the future will be 100kW capable. Will JdeMO be able to charge at that rate?

Answer: No, because in order to get the full 100kW would require a 500 volt battery. Like most modern electric vehicles, the Roadster uses a 400-ish volt battery, therefore the maximum charge rate would be 200 amps multiplied by 400 volts, or about 80kW. The 56kWh original battery with "potted" cells may not be able to sustain this charge rate.

16) Where will JdeMO be mounted?

Answer: It will all fit entirely under the rear trunk, on the left side. To charge, you will open the trunk and plug in the CHAdeMO plug.

17) How much will it cost?

Answer: $2999 plus any options, taxes, installation, shipping, etc.

{Added 11/21/2015}
18) What are the options for overseas installation?
Answer: We will have a Toyota dealer with EV certified techs who will install our JdeMO equipment on several Toyota RAV4 EVs in Norway, for instance, where we can't practically do it for the customer. Anticipate a similar arrangement for the Roadster.


Tony WilliamsR&D ManagerQuick Charge Power LLC [email protected] www.QuickChargePower.com Twitter: QCPower1-844-EVPARTS
1-844-387-2787 ext 701
 
Last edited:

shrink

Supporting Member
May 21, 2013
912
430
Phoenix, AZ
Any idea where he's planning on putting the CHAdeMO charge port? There's not a lot of extra room in a Roadster. (Self-edit, I just read #16. So we'd have to charge with the trunk open).

Tony should clarify a few things, too.

8) Some Roadsters were indeed leased.

12) I do not imagine any Tesla Service center installing this.
 

AEdennis

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,713
937
Thanks for the update @mpt, glad you got to see AA's JDeMO equipped RAV4 @ Nauna's...

I remember the meetings these guys were having in SoCal when they were debugging the protocol and several 3D printed mockups.

The final product is definitely rock solid.
 

ElectricLove

Member
May 28, 2013
551
312
I got this message from Tony before as well, very cool that he is offering this kind of upgrade for us! I too am a little weary of the location of the charging plug, leaving the trunk open is sketchy (I wouldn't want to let it out of my sight but would inevitably need to if road-tripping, it'll take 30-60 minutes to charge up)

I think integrating the port into the rear bumper (under the license plate) could work or at the air-intake in the rear... Or under the front hood in a manner that it could be closed/locked during charging... Options are limited though...
 

adiggs

Active Member
Sep 25, 2012
4,208
11,527
Portland, OR
I gotta say - this sounds pretty exciting. Whether I'd personally take advantage or not. We have a pretty well developed Chademo network in the Pacific NW (West Coast Electric Highway) - this would definitely improve mobility up and down the coast, down to Eugene, and up to Seattle. H'mm...
 

Habious

Member
Sep 30, 2014
420
132
Springfield, VA
Any idea where he's planning on putting the CHAdeMO charge port? There's not a lot of extra room in a Roadster. (Self-edit, I just read #16. So we'd have to charge with the trunk open).

Tony should clarify a few things, too.

8) Some Roadsters were indeed leased.

12) I do not imagine any Tesla Service center installing this.

I also wonder about #9

9) Do I need to remove JdeMO to have normal service or maintenance performed?
Answer: Absolutely not. We specifically do not want you handling, modifying, repairing or in any way changing JdeMO except to recharge your Roadster from a CHAdeMO charger. If you need to remove JdeMO for any reason, contact Quick Charge Power for instructions.
WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN KILL. DO NOT TOUCH, MODIFY, HANDLE, REPAIR OR CHANGE JdeMO IN ANY WAY.


I think that's a question that only Tesla can answer. Are they OK doing annual service on a Roadster with this installed (since that requires removal of the PEM)?
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,197
13,846
San Mateo, CA
I also wonder about #9

I think that's a question that only Tesla can answer. Are they OK doing annual service on a Roadster with this installed (since that requires removal of the PEM)?
Good point. In my opinion, anyone considering making this modification to their Roadster should not assume that Tesla will be okay with it and be willing to service or repair their car in the future.
 
Last edited:

mpt

Electrics are back
Oct 15, 2008
1,746
197
Warren, New Jersey, United States
The Rav4EV installation is 100% parasitical, no wires are cut or even tampered with, only clamped on to. Let's see what the Roadster design entails. I see it as being comparable to a regular service, as long as it doesn't complicate with extra work or stop them moving around it, it should be ok. Toyota techs have been more curious than cautionary with the Rav's it seems.

fwiw, Tesla used to unplug my OVMS at service, but no longer.
 

shrink

Supporting Member
May 21, 2013
912
430
Phoenix, AZ
I agree. In my opinion, anyone considering making this modification to their Roadster should not assume that Tesla will be okay with it and be willing to service or repair their car in the future.

These are valid concerns, but I would also like to point out Tesla's policy seems to be evolving. About 2-3 months ago when I took my Roadster in for service, the service center asked me to sign a 3rd Party of Aftermarket Accessory Waiver (or something to that extent). I wish I kept a copy, but the gist was that Tesla would work on cars with 3rd party accessories (I have a few on my Roadster - subwoofer, stereo, back up camera, dash cam, OVMS, smartphone mount, lightening cable in place of dock connector, powder coated wheels), but Tesla reserved the right to remove or disconnect any accessories if it was required for their repair. Again, I don't have the exact wording, but they certainly seemed to acknowledge many owners now have non-OEM parts and accessories and were willing to work around them.

A CHAdeMO/JdeMO is, of course, potentially a whole new beast, but if done well and professionally (and I expect nothing less from Tony), I imagine a knowledgeable owner with a good relationship with the service center could come to a mutual service understanding. No guarantees, of course, and there is certainly some risk, but the cost-benefit of CHAdeMO charging for $3000 vs a new battery for $29,000 might be well worth it for many owners' typical driving needs.

I'll be following this closely.
 

AEdennis

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,713
937
These are valid concerns, but I would also like to point out Tesla's policy seems to be evolving. About 2-3 months ago when I took my Roadster in for service, the service center asked me to sign a 3rd Party of Aftermarket Accessory Waiver (or something to that extent). I wish I kept a copy, but the gist was that Tesla would work on cars with 3rd party accessories (I have a few on my Roadster - subwoofer, stereo, back up camera, dash cam, OVMS, smartphone mount, lightening cable in place of dock connector, powder coated wheels), but Tesla reserved the right to remove or disconnect any accessories if it was required for their repair. Again, I don't have the exact wording, but they certainly seemed to acknowledge many owners now have non-OEM parts and accessories and were willing to work around them.

A CHAdeMO/JdeMO is, of course, potentially a whole new beast, but if done well and professionally (and I expect nothing less from Tony), I imagine a knowledgeable owner with a good relationship with the service center could come to a mutual service understanding. No guarantees, of course, and there is certainly some risk, but the cost-benefit of CHAdeMO charging for $3000 vs a new battery for $29,000 might be well worth it for many owners' typical driving needs.

I'll be following this closely.

I'll look at this as both new battery AND JDeMO to allow really long travel and faster refill on a 300 mile Roadster.
 
I find the thought of having this option in the car interesting. However, just for kicks I looked at the PlugShare map for the greater Los Angeles area and it was shocking how many CHAdeMO's were non-operational and for extended periods of time or dealerships were limited their use to only their vehicles. Unless things change - I'm not sure how beneficial having this will be. I wouldn't leave home without my JR can and my RV plug cord.
 

Oba

Member
Jun 7, 2015
234
7
SoCal
I find the thought of having this option in the car interesting. However, just for kicks I looked at the PlugShare map for the greater Los Angeles area and it was shocking how many CHAdeMO's were non-operational and for extended periods of time or dealerships were limited their use to only their vehicles. Unless things change - I'm not sure how beneficial having this will be. I wouldn't leave home without my JR can and my RV plug cord.

I don't have a Roadster, but without a Supercharger option, is sitting at an RV park for 5 hours (40 amps max from 50 amp RV service) or even 7 hours with a 70kWh battery) really competition? In a place like SoCal, you can't find ONE working charger with a car with a 150-200 mile range? Or the car with a 300-400 mile range?

There has to be hundreds of these things in SoCal alone, and they can't all be broken. I'm not even sure why you would want to go to a Nissan dealer (or ANY car dealer) when there are so many chargers that are at shopping malls and restaurants (like Supercharger) and up and down the freeways (like the West Coast Electric Highway).

Certainly, if you were in Kansas, this might not be a viable option. But, many major metro areas have chargers and both coasts of the USA are very quickly becoming quite doable.

- - - Updated - - -

I got this message from Tony before as well, very cool that he is offering this kind of upgrade for us! I too am a little weary of the location of the charging plug, leaving the trunk open is sketchy (I wouldn't want to let it out of my sight but would inevitably need to if road-tripping, it'll take 30-60 minutes to charge up)

I think integrating the port into the rear bumper (under the license plate) could work or at the air-intake in the rear... Or under the front hood in a manner that it could be closed/locked during charging... Options are limited though...

Could the boot storage be made to be enclosed with the lid open, so that all your boot stored items are locked and waterproof?
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,197
13,846
San Mateo, CA
Thanks shrink, that is interesting info. I recently had the annual maintenance done on my Roadster for the first time (I am the second owner) and I was not asked to sign anything like you describe even though I have an OVMS installed and an HUD speedo. I don't have any other aftermarket stuff, however. Would like to have a backup camera but that's a major project on a 1.5 car.
These are valid concerns, but I would also like to point out Tesla's policy seems to be evolving. About 2-3 months ago when I took my Roadster in for service, the service center asked me to sign a 3rd Party of Aftermarket Accessory Waiver (or something to that extent). I wish I kept a copy, but the gist was that Tesla would work on cars with 3rd party accessories (I have a few on my Roadster - subwoofer, stereo, back up camera, dash cam, OVMS, smartphone mount, lightening cable in place of dock connector, powder coated wheels), but Tesla reserved the right to remove or disconnect any accessories if it was required for their repair. Again, I don't have the exact wording, but they certainly seemed to acknowledge many owners now have non-OEM parts and accessories and were willing to work around them.
 

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