Will the charge curve be adjusted for the different chemistry in the 3.0? (And for that matter, is the Roadster charge curve different to the RAV4 charge curve?)
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Will the charge curve be adjusted for the different chemistry in the 3.0? (And for that matter, is the Roadster charge curve different to the RAV4 charge curve?)
dhrivnak
Active Member
I believe the chemistry is VERY similar which is why we are not using Model S or Model 3 cells. They needed to keep the voltage and charge curves the same so they did not have to tweak the electronics in the Roadster.
Hmm I thought the original Roadster was Lithium Cobalt and the new one a more robust Lithium NMC.
dhrivnak
Active Member
TonyWilliams
Active Member
We have yet to actually see a v3.0 Roadster. Obviously, we are fully prepared to make whatever software changes necessary to JdeMO. The first v3.0 Roadster installation of JdeMO should be next month in Ohio.
Our software is now in year 3 of development, with almost 150 successful JdeMO installations worldwide. So far, we have not had a single failure, and like Tesla, our product improvements are ongoing.
We recently received the newest v1.2 CHAdeMO specifications (effective 27 March 2017), and we intend to make future installs compliant with that spec. Actually, our software was already compliant with one feature in v1.2, which is dynamic max amperage control from the charger. This allows the charger to change its maximum output for whatever reason (grid demand, overheating charger, etc) and JdeMO will happily follow along.
In addition, v1.2 allows over 125 amp charging, which we are already testing for Roadster and Toyota RAV4 EV.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
We conducted some testing at the AC Propulsion labs in preparation for increasing the power of JdeMO as newer, higher powered CHAdeMO stations come online in the coming years (up to 400 amps). Currently, JdeMO is restricted to 125 amps (about 50kW in the Roadster, and 45kW in the Toyota RAV4 EV).
We successfully charged the 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV to 200 amps without failure. The Roadster and Rav4 EV both share a lot of Tesla design, including the 2600mah Sanyo/Panasonic 18650 cells. We had hoped to have a Roadster present for the same test, but we were not able to do that.
*********
I received several questions in the last few days about the function of the button and LED light. First let me say that if you never touch that button, your life will be just fine. Also the equipment can function perfectly without the button or light altogether.
The button provides 4 purposes:
1) Green light for charging modes:
a. Steady green - operating normally
b. Fast blinking - battery hot - charge rate reduced:
45C - 90 amps max
47C - 60 amps max
49C - 30 amps max
51C - 0 amps
c. Regular blinking for half power charging and half battery State Of Charge (SOC%)... see below
2) Report half SOC% to charger. For example, a battery at 84% SOC would then report 42% SOC.
a. PRESS AND RELEASE the button
b. The charger display will show half the charge SOC% - green LED light will blink short
c. PRESS AND RELEASE the button to return to normal
3) Reduce charge rate to half power. For example, if you were concerned that a charger might overheat at full power for one continuous hour, it might make sense to charge for two hours at half power.
a. HOLD BUTTON FOR 1-2 seconds and RELEASE
b. The maximum power of the charger will be reduced by half - green LED light will blink
c. HOLD BUTTON for 1-2 seconds and RELEASE the button to return to normal charger power
4) Shut down
a. HOLD BUTTON for 3 seconds
b. Green LED light extinguishes
c. Charger contactors open
d. JdeMO contactors open
e. CHAdeMO plug unlocks
We successfully charged the 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV to 200 amps without failure. The Roadster and Rav4 EV both share a lot of Tesla design, including the 2600mah Sanyo/Panasonic 18650 cells. We had hoped to have a Roadster present for the same test, but we were not able to do that.
*********
I received several questions in the last few days about the function of the button and LED light. First let me say that if you never touch that button, your life will be just fine. Also the equipment can function perfectly without the button or light altogether.
The button provides 4 purposes:
1) Green light for charging modes:
a. Steady green - operating normally
b. Fast blinking - battery hot - charge rate reduced:
45C - 90 amps max
47C - 60 amps max
49C - 30 amps max
51C - 0 amps
c. Regular blinking for half power charging and half battery State Of Charge (SOC%)... see below
2) Report half SOC% to charger. For example, a battery at 84% SOC would then report 42% SOC.
a. PRESS AND RELEASE the button
b. The charger display will show half the charge SOC% - green LED light will blink short
c. PRESS AND RELEASE the button to return to normal
3) Reduce charge rate to half power. For example, if you were concerned that a charger might overheat at full power for one continuous hour, it might make sense to charge for two hours at half power.
a. HOLD BUTTON FOR 1-2 seconds and RELEASE
b. The maximum power of the charger will be reduced by half - green LED light will blink
c. HOLD BUTTON for 1-2 seconds and RELEASE the button to return to normal charger power
4) Shut down
a. HOLD BUTTON for 3 seconds
b. Green LED light extinguishes
c. Charger contactors open
d. JdeMO contactors open
e. CHAdeMO plug unlocks
samcarney
Sam C
I finally got around to installing the the JdeMO kit on my Roadster 2.0.
Charging at a Nissan dealer. Thanks Bob Rorhman
Charging on the Illinois Tollway
Charging at a Nissan dealer. Thanks Bob Rorhman
Charging on the Illinois Tollway
TonyWilliams
Active Member
@Roadster picked up his 2.5 car last night, and we did a test charge at the local public CHAdeMO station in Vista, California. It started the first time, no faults, no errors.
Here he is charging at CalTech's new CHAdeMO / CCS dual DC fast charger:
Free Destination Charging: 50x L2 80A Stations @ Caltech, Pasadena, CA
Here he is charging at CalTech's new CHAdeMO / CCS dual DC fast charger:
Free Destination Charging: 50x L2 80A Stations @ Caltech, Pasadena, CA
TonyWilliams
Active Member
Roadster 2.5 with JdeMO:
Deciding where to cut for the inlet:
This is the only cut required for JdeMO installation on the 2.5 Roadster. You can buy this black plastic part at the Tesla Service Center for $500.
There will be a hinge at the bottom of the opening, and the future door will open from the top down.
Deciding where to cut for the inlet:
This is the only cut required for JdeMO installation on the 2.5 Roadster. You can buy this black plastic part at the Tesla Service Center for $500.
There will be a hinge at the bottom of the opening, and the future door will open from the top down.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
For the 416 volt Roadster battery, it will get very close to 125 amps / 400 volts (50kW).
It will hold 125 amps through about 70% SOC, so the lowest charge rate is 125a * 325v = 40kW with a mostly depleted battery. That will ramp up to 50kW at 70%, and then the amps will drop all the way to zero as the battery reaches 100% in RANGE mode (in normal charge mode, it's about 30 amps at 100%).
For a simple rule of thumb, use 45kW when charging from 20% to 80%, or about 40 minutes.
I ran a test charge this morning at Caltech on the new 50kW 100A 480V 3PH Chargion unit @TonyWilliams mentioned above and captured the data for reference. It's a load balanced installation at that site so I intentionally went early to try and test the full available output when the overall system demand was low with only a handful of cars charging on L2.
My ESS had roughly 50% charge on it so the data below reflects that as the starting point. Overall, some very good sustained charging rates and, more importantly, consistent thermal management for the vital components as evidenced by the attached chart. I'm very please so far with the performance and convenience this unit's afforded me and would love to hear other JdeMO owners' thoughts.
My ESS had roughly 50% charge on it so the data below reflects that as the starting point. Overall, some very good sustained charging rates and, more importantly, consistent thermal management for the vital components as evidenced by the attached chart. I'm very please so far with the performance and convenience this unit's afforded me and would love to hear other JdeMO owners' thoughts.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
While this chart is for the Toyota RAV4 EV, it somewhat mimics what the Roadster should do with JdeMO:
The Roadster will charge up to 50kW peak at 120-125 amps, because the battery voltage is higher in the Roadster (416 max voltage -vs- 386 max voltage). That means you can estimate an average of about 42.5kW over a typical charge period from low battery voltage (about 300-330 volts) up to about 80%.
42.5kW is about 0.7kWh per minute, so:
30 minute charge will add 21kWh * 300watthours/miles = 70 miles added
45 minute charge will add 30kWh* 300watthours/miles = 100 miles added
60 minute charge will add 38-40kWh = 120-130 miles (the charge rate will definitely slow)
The Roadster will charge up to 50kW peak at 120-125 amps, because the battery voltage is higher in the Roadster (416 max voltage -vs- 386 max voltage). That means you can estimate an average of about 42.5kW over a typical charge period from low battery voltage (about 300-330 volts) up to about 80%.
42.5kW is about 0.7kWh per minute, so:
30 minute charge will add 21kWh * 300watthours/miles = 70 miles added
45 minute charge will add 30kWh* 300watthours/miles = 100 miles added
60 minute charge will add 38-40kWh = 120-130 miles (the charge rate will definitely slow)
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@hcsharp, interesting question on the PEM temp since there's no power inversion needed. I was running the radio and HVAC while it was charging so would that perhaps account for the slight rise? As far as the charging mode relevance, I'm not certain so I'll leave that to @TonyWilliams to confirm.
Marius
Member
If I understand correctly the car is charging in operating mode. The unit acts like regen, so if you press the battery symbol in theVDS screen to range, the car will charge in range mode. Selecting on the battery symbol to standard will make it charge in standard mode.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
Yes, JdeMO will observe the charge limits of RANGE and NORMAL charge profiles. This is different than JdeMO in the RAV4 EV, which will NOT respect any difference between Normal and Extended charge profiles.
Nothing is going on with the PEM during DC charging. The energy is entirely DC, and wired directly to the battery.
Nothing is going on with the PEM during DC charging. The energy is entirely DC, and wired directly to the battery.
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TonyWilliams
Active Member
We successfully tested the Roadster v3.0 / R80 with JdeMO this afternoon for the first time.
Here is the YouTube link:
Here is the YouTube link:
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