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Jeff Dahn's recommendation on long term battery preservation

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by Freedom101, Aug 29, 2017.

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  1. Freedom101

    Freedom101 Member

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    #1 Freedom101, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2017
    I decided to do a video on this as it's a fairly common question I've come across and hard not to get several different answers. So, I reached out to Jeff Dahn (Tesla Industrial Research Chair and Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science at the University of Dalhousie in Nova Scotia). I advised I was planning to keep my X for approximately 2 decades and asked him where he'd charge the battery to for day-to-day use, with long term preservation in mind.

    Check it out here:



    For those that don't wish to watch the video he recommends daily charging to 70 percent and to go ahead and charge to 100 percent for longer trips. He also comments on Vancouver being a nice climate for lithium ion batteries. Cheers.
     
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  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Should I listen to the professor Jeff Dahn to set the charging limit at 70%.

    Or

    Should I listen to the engineer Elon Musk at 80%?
     
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  3. Fallenone

    Fallenone Active Member

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    75% it is.
     
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  4. Freedom101

    Freedom101 Member

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    Excellent point and that tweet is one of the things that led me to pursue this question. Tesla recommends between 50-90 percent yet when Elon was presented with what was an either or scenario; 90-40 percent or 80-30 percent. Elon states 80-30 percent for the daily commute is better than the alternative 90-40 percent. Why didn't he just say it makes no difference?

    The tweet didn't quite answer my question in what is ideal. I wonder if Elon's answer would be different had the question been posed in another way.

    Regardless, I believe there would be a negligible difference between 70 and 80 percent, but a difference nonetheless. I'm going to stick with 70 for now as it falls well within my normal daily use :).
     
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  5. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    A couple of decades? Nice... I'm quite interested to see how that evolves.

    Jeff
     
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  6. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    #6 Canuck, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    There is no "ideal" setting that works for everyone since we all have different driving routines.

    Lithium ion batteries last longest when you cycle them around 50%. (They also last longer with shorter cycles, less heat, etc. but I am only dealing with the ideal charge percentage setting.)

    That means if your commute takes 20% of your battery, you set your slider to 60% since that way you cycle around 50%. If your commute takes 30% your ideal setting is 65%, etc. But unexpected trips can happen and it doesn't really hurt to charge a bit more than necessary, but it's not ideal, according to the science.

    The comment about Vancouver being an ideal climate for the batteries doesn't apply to Teslas, but it does to a Nissan Leaf. I would not have bought my Leaf if I lived in Florida or Texas since it has no thermal battery management like a Tesla, hence the Nissan class action lawsuit as a result of severe degradation, especially when charging a hot battery in a hot climate with no thermal cooling. You can almost watch the Leaf's bars fall off when doing that -- but not with a Tesla -- you can hear the cooling system rev up when charging a hot battery on a hot day to keep the batteries cool.

    Tesla did it right. Nissan did a major fail.

    On the rare really hot days we have here (today is one of them), I tell my wife and kids not to plug in the Leaf after driving it like they normally do, but to wait until the batteries have cooled down, and to plug in later at night when it's cooler. So far I've only lost one battery bar on my 2012 Leaf.

    I didn't watch the video since it sounds like it contains incorrect information from your summary but hopefully he says if you charge to 100% you drive it right away since packing all those electrons in, and keeping them there, degrades the cathode.

    Having said that, someone here said it's a car not a bomb, and not to worry or obsess over it and I agree with that. I've charged my Tesla to 100% a lot, to go to my cabin and back, but I drive it right away after doing so, and the last time I did I was at 412 km after nearly 4 years and nearly 80k km on it.
     
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  7. Freedom101

    Freedom101 Member

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    That's the plan. Maintain it and see how it goes. And to think I went UW with young kids...
     
  8. Lasttoy

    Lasttoy Member

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    I have a 2013 with over 100k miles. I have been charginging to 240 miles for last 5 months while touring USA. No effects so far.
     
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  9. conman

    conman Member

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    Nonetheless it is 90% daily for me. Why? Because it is unlikely to make a significant difference for how long and how far I plan to drive with the vehicle and it makes a difference to performance progressively more once the charge falls below 70%. I purchased a P100D for the performance and want it always available on my regular drives. As for the followup questions - do I use ludicrous mode? All the time. Do I use ludicrous+ ? Often.
     
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  10. Bebop

    Bebop Member

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    #10 Bebop, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
    I just hope battery tech gets to the point where one doesn't have to worry about these things. It would be so simple to just be able to charge to 100 daily and that's that.
     
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  11. teddytoons

    teddytoons Member

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    keeping my Model S for at least a couple of decades was also my plan.:) I think I'll go with Mr. Lithium (Jeff dahn) Battery's recommendation. It goes nicely with my daily drive.:cool:
     
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  12. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Umm, where? I saw the embedded YouTube video there yesterday but now it seems be missing.

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the video's disappearance:
     
  13. Freedom101

    Freedom101 Member

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    Yes appears a mod deleted it... Apologies if I did something wrong, wasn't my intent.

    For those interested my YouTube channel is called Freedom101 and the title of the video is 'ideal Tesla battery daily charge limit for day-to-day driving as per Mr. Jeff Dahn'.
     
  14. bcalfee

    bcalfee Member

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    We have a 2015 S, 70D that we bought in December of 2015. We have 46,000 miles on it. 20,000 miles since April 1 as we have been touring the US. We have tried to charge to 100 percent only when needed... and we have done it a lot which has worried me some. I have seen no change in available miles or range.
     
  15. bcalfee

    bcalfee Member

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    We have just bought a house (try to settle down?!) in Blacksburg VA. I asked electrician to install a Tesla Charger he suggested that the wiring difference between 40Amp (available) and 80A is around $150. I wasn't going to spend the extra as overnight charging would be the same.....

    Does anyone know if it is better to charge more slowly? If I had the faster charger, I could keep the charge limit lower and have the option to top it off quickly. Any thoughts?
     
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  16. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    He advertised his referral code in the video, which I assume was a TOS violation...or deemed so.
     
  17. Freedom101

    Freedom101 Member

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    This is a great question and I'm on a quest to find the answer to this as well. Would love insight from anyone knowledgeable on the topic.

    I don't believe the speed of a level 2 charge matters but I don't know this. There is alot of info regarding supercharging and overdoing it so I wouldn't install a level 3 charger at home until I understood it better and there was more information on it.

    I'm having my panel upgraded tomorrow and the Tesla wall mount installed on a 100amp circuit. I can only charge at a max of 48 amps but figure why not do it at the higher capacity (cost is essentially the same). The beauty of going higher on a level 2 charger with a Tesla is you can always slow the overnight charge down if you find info that it is beneficial to do so.
     
  18. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    I charge to 75% daily. 3.95 V per cell. 70% is 3.92 V. The difference between the two is likely negligible.
     
  19. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I thought originally, Tesla didn't allow youtube referral codes but shortly afterward, it revised its written policy and now allows them.
     
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  20. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    I was commenting on it being moderated on TMC, not youtube.
     

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