Jeff Dahn's work is going into Tesla's products!

[omgwtfbyobbq]

All I can say is... Wow! I'm guessing this means their cell testing/assembly/diagnostics, chemistry, and BMS.

Tesla battery research partner working on longevity breakthrough says work is going into the company’s products

As far as I know, and I'm a layperson, Jeff Dahn is at the cutting edge of battery capacity loss/longevity.

The Model 3 may be the first car sold with battery packs that can consistently go decades/several hundred thousand miles without replacement. In that context, Tesla's stock price makes sense, as does the Solar City acquisition, since any battery improvements would also go into the powerwall and in many cases bring the costs of off-grid renewable electricity (solar/wind + storage) in line with electricity from the grid.

 

[vrykolas]

The question is, WHEN did these improvements start appearing in Tesla battery products?

For me specifically, we bought an X in December 2016 and I'm wondering if we received an 'extended life' pack or not. I'm guessing it's probably later... maybe Jan/Feb? :/

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

My guess is that it depends on the improvement. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla has been using some of his work to test cells before pack assembly, in BMS design, and in cell design, but I'm not sure if his work has made it's way into cell chemistry as of early 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if it had, but who knows...

 

[JeffK]

The question is, WHEN did these improvements start appearing in Tesla battery products

Not really as the "2170"s for the Model 3 haven't even started production. The real question is: have they made improvements to the life of NCA batteries or just NMC for storage?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Not really as the "2170"s for the Model 3 haven't even started production. The real question is: have they made improvements to the life of NCA batteries or just NMC for storage?

Tesla starts mass production of new ‘2170’ battery cell at the Gigafactory, will be used in Model 3 in Q2

This is back in January.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Not really as the "2170"s for the Model 3 haven't even started production. The real question is: have they made improvements to the life of NCA batteries or just NMC for storage?

They've made great strides in these batteries
Tesla battery expert says they've doubled lithium-ion battery cell life

 

[JeffK]

Tesla starts mass production of new ‘2170’ battery cell at the Gigafactory, will be used in Model 3 in Q2
This is back in January.

First Q2 is from Apr 1st to Jun 30th.... Jeff Dahn, in his recent talk at MIT, even said they haven't started production on Model 3 "2170"s

I agree that Fred's title there is a bit misleading.

Second, the great strides were for NMCs which are only used in Tesla Energy products.

From Electrek :

Tesla and Panasonic are planning to start production of battery cells for vehicles, starting with the Model 3, at Gigafactory 1 by June 2017.

 

[Garlan Garner]

First Q2 is from Apr 1st to Jun 30th.... Jeff Dahn. in his talk, even said they haven't started production on Model 3 "2170"s
Second, the great strides were for NMCs which are only used in Tesla Energy products.

From Electrek citing Tesla:

Do you have a Jeff Dahn talk link? This is what I remember Jeff saying:

“At this moment, we’ve been working with Tesla only for six months so far, and none of our research has made it into their products yet, but I’m quite confident that our work will be incorporated in their products going forward, and that’s pretty exciting for us.”

I don't remember him saying that the 2170 production hasn't started. As a matter of fact.....this second article here has yet confirmed again that 2170 production has started.
Tesla battery research partner working on longevity breakthrough says work is going into the company’s products


Tesla also said that the 2170 in the M3 will be the 2170 in their powerwall.....just like the 18650's were. I'm not sure what you mean. Tesla only used one 18650 according to videos of the giga factory tour.

 

[JeffK]

Do you have a Jeff Dahn talk link?

Tesla said that the 2170 in the M3 will be the 2170 in their powerwall.....just like the 18650's were. I'm not sure what you mean. Tesla only used one 18650 according to videos of the giga factory tour.

There are two 2170 chemistries one is NMC which Jeff Dahn has been working on for years as he pioneered NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) which Tesla uses for powerwall, and the other is NCA (Nickel Cobalt Aluminum ) for vehicles.

MIT made the video private trying to find a copy... I can't find it but here's a more technical talk on the same subject from March

Basically in the lab they've found that if they coat the positive electrode with aluminum, they can get better battery lifespan (for NMC). This has not, however, made it's way into Tesla products yet.