Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Jim Keller leaves the autopilot team

MattEnth

Bear and short
Mar 27, 2018
82
185
San Francisco, CA
People should not be buying Tesla cars on the FSD promise anymore. That was early hype and ahead of its day... So yes, should probably let that go...

People should be buying these cars because they're excellent EV's with a great charging network.

Uhhh, that's not how Tesla advertises its cars... And if you're someone who's feeling annoyed about that, you should join the class action lawsuit.

Calling it "hype" is just unfair given that Tesla still actively promotes this functionality.

Tesla Autopilot Website

Emphasis added:

Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.
 
Last edited:
  • Funny
Reactions: bhzmark

scottm

Legacy account
Jun 13, 2014
3,070
2,348
Canada
Uhhh, that's not how Tesla advertises its cars... And if you're someone who's feeling annoyed about that, you should join the class action lawsuit.

Autopilot

Emphasis added:

I'm not annoyed, my car is not auto-pilot capable, I bought before the hype. I don't feel burned by missing it. Quite the opposite: I don't want a FSD car - not my idea of fun!

I don't buy vaporware with real dollars up front ... especially in the technology world. Why would anybody, other than for maybe a kickstarter where you're willing to risk something never materializing? Fact: Technology gets cheaper over time so buy as late as possible when you finally get to the point of having a real need to consume it. You can count on it costing less in the future. Maybe even free.

I'm buying another Tesla, a model 3, and I wish there was an opt-out to ditch any unnecessary autopilot hardware if that would save me a couple thousand on the purchase price... I'd take that. I do want the hardware that adds active safety features (emergency braking).. but I don't think that should cost any extra from the base car. Most cars come with the stuff now built into base.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kant.Ing

MattEnth

Bear and short
Mar 27, 2018
82
185
San Francisco, CA
I'm not annoyed, my car is not auto-pilot capable, I bought before the hype.

I don't buy vaporware with real dollars up front ... especially in the technology world. Why would anybody, other than for maybe a kickstarter where you're willing to risk something never materializing?

Technology gets cheaper over time so buy as late as possible when you finally get to the point of having a real need to consume it.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were replying to the post right before yours

I'm starting to grasp the idea that my car will never come pick me up :(. Walking to the parking lot sucks especially when I paid a lot of money hoping one day I wouldn't have to lol.

You should be disappointed. In my opinion, it's ridiculous that Tesla has marketed autopilot the way it has.
 

xav-

Active Member
May 26, 2016
1,187
982
Orange County CA
I believe the software is still headed up by Andrej Karpathy, one of the foremost deep learning and computer vision experts in the world. I'm sure autopilot software will be fine under his guidance.

Keller was apparently a hardware guy, and even if he was getting the chance to work on custom chips for the AI processing, I'm guessing he found the software-heavy side of things less compelling.
What is there to do on hardware anyway.. isn’t the current hardware under utilized?
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Electroman

TaoJones

Beyond Driven
Nov 10, 2014
3,064
3,028
The Americas
They've yet to demonstrate that they can even get their software to do very limited versions of self driving using existing hardware, EAP is clearly not currently Enhanced, and actually is still behind the functionality of AP1 from 3 years and a hardware generation ago.

Very and irrefutably true.

However, let's see what Karpathy can do this year and next to close those gaps to the extent possible. Board or no board, recent reviews have been promising.

Now, if Karpathy leaves, and I'll just say this now, my shares leave with him.

Ironically enough, I didn't buy either Tesla because it was an EV, because it was the safest car on the planet (I had a Volvo before these), or because it was so delightfully quiet. I bought in because of the Driver Assist technology and the promises made in late 2014 and late 2016.

I did not and do not expect full FSD ubiquitously in my lifetime. But I do expect stop sign reaction (not just recognition), first mentioned as possible *during the AP1 event in late 2014*, within the next 2 years. Which will be a huge win and share price catalyst. Unless GM, Nissan, the Volkswagen Group, Subaru, or GM beat Tesla to it.

I like Tesla's chances with Karpathy at the helm.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,823
8,669
Seattle area, WA
Very and irrefutably true.

However, let's see what Karpathy can do this year and next to close those gaps to the extent possible. Board or no board, recent reviews have been promising.

Now, if Karpathy leaves, and I'll just say this now, my shares leave with him.

Ironically enough, I didn't buy either Tesla because it was an EV, because it was the safest car on the planet (I had a Volvo before these), or because it was so delightfully quiet. I bought in because of the Driver Assist technology and the promises made in late 2014 and late 2016.

I did not and do not expect full FSD ubiquitously in my lifetime. But I do expect stop sign reaction (not just recognition), first mentioned as possible *during the AP1 event in late 2014*, within the next 2 years. Which will be a huge win and share price catalyst. Unless GM, Nissan, the Volkswagen Group, Subaru, or GM beat Tesla to it.

I like Tesla's chances with Karpathy at the helm.
I bought 2 AP2 hardware cars but didn't pay for EAP or FSD on either because I can't see any way possible for FSD to be achieved. Forget challenging driving scenarios, I have a very simple question, how on earth is FSD supposed to work if it relies on cameras which get dirty in minutes in dust and rain and unreliable ultrasonic parking sensors?

Elon threw together a bunch of cameras and some sensors, hooked them up to a computing platform, made a staged video and started selling a dream. I don't think he ever thought it through to the end. The cars to this day don't even have reliable blind spot monitoring (heck, Tesla took that feature description off their website after AP1 software came out) and they never will (probably why they removed the blind spot warning light from the side mirror, it was wired in AP1 cars, at least in the service manual schematics)

Or do you think Elon will spring for complete sensor and computing platform retrofit for all AP2 hardware cars which paid for EAP/FSD? Everyone get new cameras with mini wipers and windshield washer spray, lidars if needed, BSM radar if needed, a new Tesla chip based computer to go with it?
 
Uhhh, that's not how Tesla advertises its cars... And if you're someone who's feeling annoyed about that, you should join the class action lawsuit.

Calling it "hype" is just unfair given that Tesla still actively promotes this functionality.

Tesla Autopilot Website

Emphasis added:

This is just a promise/a plan/a prediction/a projection/a marketing pitch... call it for what it is. Call it whatever but not a feature.

When any of the billions of common men other than a Tesla employee can summon the car or do any one of those thingnga, I’ll only then call it a feature.

Automatic lane change? Doh
Navigate thru traffic? Doh
Automatic freeway exit? Doh
Best in class, environmentally friendly, EV? Yes sure.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,879
10,023
Knoxville, Tennessee
And Sandy Munro recently confirmed that Tesla s hardware was cell phone and fighter jet quality ------way beyond what other auto mfrs are doing.

That's just because Munro is a dinosaur (not a techie) and sees a dense board and thinks wow.

We know it's a Tesla only part but we don't know how much of the board design is in house vs outsourced/supplier provided. For all we know NVidia did the heavy lifting on that board.
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,949
45,194
Michigan
That's just because Munro is a dinosaur (not a techie) and sees a dense board and thinks wow.

We know it's a Tesla only part but we don't know how much of the board design is in house vs outsourced/supplier provided. For all we know NVidia did the heavy lifting on that board.

Overall architecture design is likely by Tesla. Nvidia provides the interface requirements for their ICs. PCB layout software does the initial heavy lifting (128 bit wide delay matched busses are not to be trifled with).

The costly/hard part is first producing the multilayer PCB with laser drilled vias (likely blind and buried) and then assembling all the components without any solder bridges or voids. The really crazy stuff is PCBs with components integrated inside the layers.
 

bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,834
6,775
He compared it to what he sees in other cars. I don't think he said anything factually incorrect.

And if you had bothered to actually watch the video you would see that they stated that the board was an nvidia.
That's just because Munro is a dinosaur (not a techie) and sees a dense board and thinks wow.

We know it's a Tesla only part but we don't know how much of the board design is in house vs outsourced/supplier provided. For all we know NVidia did the heavy lifting on that board.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: dhanson865
Still not sure what Keller was doing there. His specialty is not really what Tesla is trying to do. Tesla wants low powered ASICs like inference chips without relying on Nvidia. This is way more work than it sounds like though. The chips themselves are rather simple (kind of the whole point) but you need to make all the software you use target them. For this you need more software specialists (and compiler folk at that) than pure hardware specialists. Rather than leveraging the ecosystem you're duplicating and fighting against it.

Keller is into general purpose work horses. The new infotainment systems are x86 now, I believe, so maybe that was his influence. But even at that it is an Intel chip, not a custom design. So... what exactly did he do while he was there?
 
What I recall is that the guy on the right got a message on his phone saying it was Nvidia, but the rest of the people were basically "yeah, Nvidia makes the chips, but that doesn't mean they make the board"

The chips are Nvidia designed. Nvidia is fabless so they definitely didn't make the chips or the board. It was probably TSMC making the chips and then FoxConn or one of those folks making the board. The PCB design could have been either Nvidia or Tesla, it really doesn't matter. That's common stuff.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top