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Joe McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover - who is more to blame for America's psychology?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Nuclear Fusion, Sep 4, 2017.

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  1. Nuclear Fusion

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    Who is more to blame for America's irrational 'communists under the bed' mentality, such that 'socialist' has become a dirty word?

    And before you fallaciously misdirect with the red herring of 'Australia has its own problems' and go off on that tangent to deflect from the question, here is a list of countries I would choose to live in before the USA, even with unlimited funds:

    Canada
    New Zealand
    Sweden
    Germany
    Finland
    Norway
    Denmark
    Holland
    Iceland

    and that's just off the top of my head.
     
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  2. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    I think the best place is Estonia ;) Social benefits (healthcare, education, etc.) but no corporate taxes... and is operating at General government surplus. Only Tesla Service Center and Superchargers missing ...
     
  3. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Dude, have you checked out the socialist paradise called Venezuela lately?
     
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  4. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    I always enjoy when sanctimonious foreigners expound on the evils of the US
     
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  5. Struja

    Struja Struja

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    Can I comment?

    I am born and raised Canadian. Lived in Canada until I was 24.

    Moved to the USA at 24. Lived in the USA until I was 37. Married an American girl and had two American born kids. Moved back to Canada and have lived here for the last 8 years.

    Here is what I have learned... I think each country does some things better than the other. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas but the most important thing I have learned is that what might be good for me, may not be so good for you.

    I disagree with many things In the USA, as I do with many things in Canada. I see many things across the pond that I think they do much better than we do on this side of the pond...but of course, those are just my opinions. I know enough to realize most people are pretty set in their ways and certainly won't be convinced of anything from an internet discussion forum.

    I also spent two months in in Sydney and Melborune (in 1992) so I felt like I got to know life down under a bit as well.

    I've never really been a big fan of the "best country in the world" sort of thinking. I think we can all learn from one another and take the best from one another. As I said...nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.
     
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  6. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Especially when the principles they tend to mimic the most have been in our Constitution for 240 years.

    Socialism seems to only work in very limited circumstances. Communism has yet to yield a poster child after many attempts.
     
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  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Not me. A few of those countries limit free speech to what the State deems politically correct. They think honest people with firearms can only exist if they work for the State. If they work for other employers, they are criminals.

    Any country (and the US is not free of this) who believes your Human Rights are given to you by your Employer, and the only True Employer is the State, is heading down a very dark road towards fascism.
     
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  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    And yet many studies and population surveys have indicated that people are healthier, happier, and safer in many of the listed countries versus the USA.
     
  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #9 McRat, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    When walking in a field, has a sheep ever come up to complain? Wall-E might be our future, but is that freedom?

    It will be easier for our grandchildren. They will never have experienced exclusion from public lands they once enjoyed, non-toll roads, hunting, fishing, unpopular speech, simple small business startup, etc.

    People in Germany in the mid to late 30's were exceptionally happy as long as you were a Government approved human.
     
  10. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    #10 Cosmacelf, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    As a native Canadian who moved here to the US 26 years ago (about 1/2 my life lived in either country), I can say that both countries are great and they both have theirs pros and cons.

    First, both countries are huge, and you'll find a lot more commonality between a rural Albertan and a rural Iowan that you would between a Texan and a New Yorker. So generalities about "Canadians" and "Americans" are a bit silly.

    Having said that, I can say that most Canadians eye the US with a lot of suspicion. Gun violence, healthcare, brashness of the people, sue happy legal culture are some of the common reasons Canadians will state for disliking the US. Truth be told, there is a certain amount of envy too - the US seems richer and more important than its ignored neighbor up north.

    When we first moved down here (wife for an MBA, me to work in Silicon Valley, woohoo!), we firmly believed we would be here for two years and then head back to Canada. However the longer we stayed, the more the scales fell from our eyes.

    It isn't that the negatives aren't there, they are (but less than we imagined, of course), but we began to appreciate the positives. The economy and business opportunities are much better here than in Canada. Canada just feels stuck in the slow lane in comparison. And Canada's economy is fairly liberal, I can just imagine what a person from a more hidebound country feels like moving here (actually I don't have to imagine, a friend of mine emigrated from France, he emphatically says the business climate there sucks). And if you can afford it, or have a good job, healthcare is much better (6 month waiting times for an MRI are routine in Canada, assuming you even qualify for one, here 6 days is a LONG time to wait for one). On the other hand, if you live more modestly, Canada's free healthcare system has something to say for it.

    One of the things I love about my new homeland are the free speech protections enshrined in the Constitution. In the UK, for example, it can be a crime to disparage the police (which can be construed as incitement to riot and all that). The ability to vigorously protest and speak your mind about officialdom's injustices is a HUGE deal, something I think too many Americans take far too much for granted. All sorts of crap happens in other countries like the rape gangs in Rotherham (UK) because people are afraid to speak out.

    TL;DR: All countries have their pluses and minuses, and which is best depends on your preferences.
     
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  11. Kutu

    Kutu Member

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    There will be a lot of argument with me on this statement. "The USA is the reason that people criticizing the USA can!"
     
  12. Struja

    Struja Struja

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    Much of this is anecdotal and I think you have to be careful because I think you are generalizing things as "facts" which might be more about your experience and your opinion.

    Let me give you *my* experience. My income in Canada is about 7 times greater than it was at its highest point in the USA, so the notion that the US economy and business opportunities are better, is situational. I am from a family of immigrants, my father came to Toronto from Eastern Europe, my mother moved to Michigan. My family remains divided in both countries, the ones in Canada have largely been more successful by most measures (finance, education and health). Again, this is purely anecdotal and not dispositive of anything, other than it being my own experience.

    You gave a healthcare example (MRI waiting time). I live in Toronto, so I've never really waited for a diagnostic test but I know that in our First Nations communities, healthcare is absolutely abysmal. However, most people judge a countries healthcare system by mortality rates and in that regard, neither Canada nor the US compare to our friends in Scandinavia or Japan, however, Canada does enjoy better mortality rates than the USA once a patient has entered their respective healthcare systems. (As an aside... my guess is that a rural Iowan would probably have to drive quite a bit to find an MRI as well - typically urban communities are much better tended to in terms of healthcare technology).

    Again... not trying to convince anyone of anything, just my personal experience.
     
  13. Nuclear Fusion

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    Even the best future tech couldn't put that broken record back together......
    Like Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Bill Maher....
     
  14. SSedan

    SSedan Member

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    Part of the world's problem with their PERCEPTION of the USA is our media has all picked sides with most of it being very anti-American and we went for bookends on the last two Presidents with one apologizing to the world for our very existence and the next shouting a bit too loud about how we have to reclaim our position as the global superpower.

    If the OP actually spent time here I am certain the opinion about how bad it is to live here would change.

    The DNC, academics, and most of the media hate America and control much of what the rest of the world sees of us.
     
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  15. Jays200

    Jays200 Member

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    He's not a foreigner, he's from the 52nd state ;)
     
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  16. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    Name one person in the DNC that said: "I hate America".
     
  17. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    He didn't say they say they hate America, he said they hate America.
     
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  18. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That is an important difference. Because what a member of the DNC says is often the opposite of what their real goals are.;)
     
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  19. Nuclear Fusion

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    I bet the majority of Americans wouldn't know what Joe McCarthy is famous for.
     
  20. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    It was either that, or assuming he said that just because one group of people have different ideas on how a country should be run, that they "hate the country". Which would be like saying that people who won't let their kids eat a gallon of ice cream each night, "hate their kids".

    Now I know he wouldn't be so dumb as to think THAT...
     

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