just an allusion

[graham]

I understand the impracticality of a two-seater/sports car for a "family" and perhaps it is that the EV marketeers and manufacturers need to realize the basic fact that the majority of our society primarily consists of "family units" and not just "singles", then orient their design and marketing strategies accordingly

I agree that the industry needs to move in that direction, but I do not think the reason it has not up until now is because of some blind spot where the manufacturers do not "realize" it is what people want. I think it is strictly a matter of cost. Batteries are heavy and expensive and up until now it has been difficult to make an affordable family car that is big enough. We are just beginning to get to the point where it is feasible, and over the next 5 years or so we will see the industry start moving in that direction.

 

[doug]

Yes, I've since revisited their individual threads wherein my submitted information was incorporated nicely with the other comments, providing more readily available insight on the given subject as compared, but if you've the need to delete my comments to trim the thread and make it more so readily digestible to the viewer/easier on you/Moderators, then by all means please do, I gather that others will succeed in conveying the gist of the issue under discussion without my input.

Is that really all just one sentence?

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. My preference is to not have to go deleting posts, and I welcome your participation here. But help a brother out, and try to put stuff in the right place to begin with so I don't have to later. Read through the thread before you post so that you contribute to the conversation instead of repeating it. Try to stay on topic. Try to post only relevant parts of articles. Use

tags where where appropriate. Don't embed overly large images.
Most members, including new ones, don't need to be told this stuff.

Try to follow the example of others, particularly graham or dpeilow (not vfx :wink.

Edit: Just noticed that you made a good post. Bravo.

 

[just-an-allusion]

I agree that the industry needs to move in that direction, but I do not think the reason it has not up until now is because of some blind spot where the manufacturers do not "realize" it is what people want. I think it is strictly a matter of cost. Batteries are heavy and expensive and up until now it has been difficult to make an affordable family car that is big enough. We are just beginning to get to the point where it is feasible, and over the next 5 years or so we will see the industry start moving in that direction.

Which is what I was getting at when I went on to say:

...though the gist of what I've gotten on the psychology behind the EV movement is that it is still, essentially, in its infancy and accordingly requires some degree of further development to overcome certain technologically limiting hurdles as maximum weight requirements versus mileage, and safety/reliability, for example.

Though it's good to know that we're essentially on the same page, even though we may be reading from different books, lol!

 

[just-an-allusion]

Is that really all just one sentence?

Yes, and is really nothing compared to what I typically construct, lol!

Most members, including new ones, don't need to be told this stuff.

"Most members"..."Most members"...?!? Great! Now I'm being discriminated against because I'm not like "most members", huh?? (Just kidding;-) )

Try to follow the example of others, particularly graham or dpeilow (not vfx :wink.

I generally prefer to walk my own path instead of being one of the cowed masses, but I've no problem with following the cues of others that have demonstrated a certain propensity for intellect in a given field.

Edit: Just noticed that you made a good post. Bravo.

See...I just have a certain way of growing on people over time, LOL!! Practice makes perfect...everyone just needs to exercise a little patience and I, for one, am not without guilt in this observation.

 

[DDB]

True, all very true.

But don't worry, it is getting to the point where, soon enough, just about any vehicle format will be able to be electrolyzed...take for instance the offerings from Chrysler's ENVI division consisting of, yes, a "sports" car, but also a Jeep and (drum roll please) the ever family enviable "minivan".
https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/innovation/envi/overview/

I'd like to think so, but if you hear it from the Big 3, they always say something like: The old materials make the vehicle too heavy, or the battery is not ready, or the vehicle needs to be more aerodynamic. I'd agree you could convert any vehicle, but the bigger boys do not play the conversion game. At least not yet.

 

[just-an-allusion]

I'd like to think so, but if you hear it from the Big 3, they always say something like: The old materials make the vehicle too heavy, or the battery is not ready, or the vehicle needs to be more aerodynamic. I'd agree you could convert any vehicle, but the bigger boys do not play the conversion game. At least not yet.

To be completely honest, from my perspective I really do not understand the basis of the arguments over "materials", "weight", "batteries" or even "aerodynamics" for that matter, behind the lack of/postponed development/production of vehicles/cars capable of carrying more than two people at any given time over any given distance in a vehicle composed of any given material composition (be they new, old, or a combination of the two), and feel that it is all little more that ICE/Big Oil industry derived propaganda intended to keep society enslaved to the old technologies and deprive the World of currently existing, in usage, new technologies due to the fact that I'm aware that there are several conveyances scattered about this World capable of carrying a multitude of individuals at a high rate of speed over distances far in excess of those commonly traveled by daily, albeit even weekly, commuters in carriages composed of all manner of materials, and do it all with little more than electric motors, e.g., the TGV, the Eurostar, the Thalys, the Renfe & AVE...hell, the South Korean KTX weighs 700 tons, travels at 300mph, pushes 18,000hp and does it all on some "batteries".

So why cannot similar technology be applied to a car (like the Eliica manufacturers have)"?" I have no idea, but it is very frustrating for me that it is not.

 

[graham]

It is true that high speed rail is often electric - but they are not autonomous vehicles like automobiles. They are tethered to overhead wires or a third rail constantly feeding power from a stationary power station unlike a car carrying heavy batteries along with them.

There has been talk from time to time of doing inductive charging to a car either while driving on the freeway, or at stoplights/parking lots - but that takes a lot of government infrastructure that is easier to do with rail than with car. And even with rail, it is very expensive. Take the high speed rail proposal that just barely passed in California. That passed by the skin of its teeth, will take over 20 billion dollars, only goes back and forth on 1 or 2 "paths" unlike a car, and will not be available for decades. Getting enough voters to get behind doing a new similar infrastructure with cars is prohibitively expensive and therefore politically difficult.

But you are correct, it is not technically impossible with todays technology. If someone with the political will were to champion the idea with a reasonable plan to pay for it, I would likely vote for such a thing.

 

[just-an-allusion]

It is true that high speed rail is often electric - but they are not autonomous vehicles like automobiles. They are tethered to overhead wires or a third rail constantly feeding power from a stationary power station unlike a car carrying heavy batteries along with them.

A click on and perusal of any number of the links contained in my post would have revealed to the viewer that several of the referenced trains are "autonomous" in nature/operation...otherwise I would have negated my intended point entirely. It is important not to confuse commuter/light rail with actual commuter/cargo trains.

But you are correct, it is not technically impossible with todays technology. If someone with the political will were to champion the idea with a reasonable plan to pay for it, I would likely vote for such a thing.

The best way to garner politicians to champion a cause is by giving them something worth championing. I'm not referring to establishing electric rail lines, but rather producing EV's capable of transporting multiple people, i.e., "families"...as such, the responsibility for promoting such clearly rests on the shoulders of the EV manufacturers because it would be impossible for politicians (or others) to deny the potential when it's out in the open for all to see.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Moderator's Edit: From here.

p.s. There just so happens to be what essentially amounts to an approximately 10 million square mile (roughly the size of Africa) island of plastic debris floating out in the middle of the World's ocean somewhere that could really use a new home/stand to be put to new use.
Plastic is Drastic: World's Largest 'Landfill' is in the Middle of the Ocean CAPT. CHARLES MOORE / Algalita Marine Research Foundation (AMRF) 1nov02

You see, all of the answers the World needs to solve humanity's environmental, ecological and technological woes are already out there, at hand...it's merely finding the motivation to utilize them/encouraging the appropriate parties to put them to task.

 

[JRP3]

To be completely honest, from my perspective I really do not understand the basis of the arguments ........... I have no idea, but it is very frustrating for me that it is not.

This is probably going to sound rude but it seems apparent from many of your posts that you need to learn some basics about EV's and electricity in general. There is no comparison between high speed rail fed by mains or diesel gensets and BEV's. The Ellica is a bizarre overpriced showpiece that won't sell, not to mention it has less range than the Tesla.

 

[JRP3]

p.s. There just so happens to be what essentially amounts to an approximately 10 million square mile (roughly the size of Africa) island of plastic debris floating out in the middle of the World's ocean somewhere that could really use a new home/stand to be put to new use.
Plastic is Drastic: World's Largest 'Landfill' is in the Middle of the Ocean CAPT. CHARLES MOORE / Algalita Marine Research Foundation (AMRF) 1nov02

Once again you ignore the realities and logistics, (i.e. time, resources, and money), that would be involved in "harvesting" this mess in the middle of the ocean.

 

[mt2]

Reference material -

Netiquette is codified; RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines
As forums are most like NetNews, sections 3.1.1 and 3.1.3 apply most here.

Or, for a quick review; How To Behave On An Internet Forum (Technology: Social Networking)

 

[just-an-allusion]

This is probably going to sound rude but it seems apparent from many of your posts that you need to learn some basics about EV's and electricity in general.

One should be cautious about drawing conclusions on the extent of another's knowledge because history has often shown that to assume, especially in the absence of factual support of such supposition, does little but make an -ASS-out of -U- and -ME- ("ASSUME")...need I say more on this point?

There is no comparison between high speed rail fed by mains or diesel gensets and BEV's.

You mean other than their both sharing a form of electric motor technology, be it AC or DC with the only real discrepancy being the manner in which the motors are powered...yes?

The Ellica is a bizarre overpriced showpiece that won't sell, not to mention it has less range than the Tesla.

The Eliica is what is referred to as a "super" car (albeit concept), not a "sports" car like the Tesla, hence the exorbitant sticker price, and some would argue with you your depiction of the actual range of the Eliica.

Now, as for the gist of your rebuttal...Actually, Japan (one of the train manufacturers I've mentioned above) has the implementation of "autonomously" powered electric trains well under way.

Here, allow me to provide you with an overview of their method of application wherein they're utilizing a technology (hydrogen) that has received much discussion elsewhere on the site:

1. Fuel cell hybrid railcar

This development is a modification of the NE train. From the beginning of its development, the NE train has been designed for modification to a fuel cell railcar. Now that prospects have been reached for practical application of a diesel hybrid system, development of a fuel cell railcar is the next step. The figure below shows an image of the railcar.

2. Fuel cell hybrid railcar

The test railcar uses the NE train car body and running equipment as is, and aims for performance equivalent to the current NE train.

NE train Main features of the test railcar:

Railcar Single-car configuration Railcar dimensions (L x W x H) 20,000 x 2,800 x 4,052 mm Maximum speed 100 km/h Main motor type and output Induction motor, 95 kW x 2 units Fuel cell type and output Solid polymer type, 65 kW x 2 units Storage battery type and capacity Lithium-ion type, 19 kWh Hydrogen tank capacity and pressure Approximately 270 liters, 35 MPa (*) * Values when using a hydrogen tank of the type that can currently be used with railcars.

• From July 2006: In-yard checking of basic performance Checking of safety • From April 2007: Planned running tests on an actual service line.

3. Image of a future railway that uses a fuel cell system

The future introduction of fuel cell railcars will make it possible to eliminate catenary facilities, allowing effective use of the space above tracks. In addition, it will also improve the railway's appearance.

4. Control system for fuel cell hybrid railcar

The control system for the fuel cell railcar is based on the diesel hybrid system, but replaces the diesel generator with a fuel cell. This efficient system supplies the necessary electric power from both the fuel cell and the storage battery when accelerating, and saves the electric power produced by the regenerative brakes in the storage battery when braking.

5. Fuel cell system

Hydrogen is separated into hydrogen ions (H+) and electrons at the cathode, and then oxygen, hydrogen ions and electrons react at the anode to produce water. At this time the electrons move from the cathode to the anode, producing
electricity.

JR-EASTress Releases - Development of the World's First Fuel Cell Hybrid Railcar


p.s. A bit of advice that was passed on to me, that I'll now pass on to you, can be found via the accompanying link which should serve to help you navigate the forums and, in particular, interact with other members here:
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum
Thank you for this opportunity and enjoy!

 

[just-an-allusion]

Reference material -

Netiquette is codified; RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines
As forums are most like NetNews, sections 3.1.1 and 3.1.3 apply most here.

Or, for a quick review; How To Behave On An Internet Forum (Technology: Social Networking)

Both of those are rich! Thank you for the links...I will take all advice under consideration, heed accordingly, and pass along as the need presents itself.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Once again you ignore the realities and logistics, (i.e. time, resources, and money), that would be involved in "harvesting" this mess in the middle of the ocean.

Actually, chance favors the prepared mind and it just so happens that I've recently researched this issue to some extent and devised the most economical/practical technique of enlisting the use of deep sea fishing trawlers to "harvest" the trash.

You see, deep sea fishing trawlers are in the practice of dragging rather large nets that hold literally tons of fish.

We could merely employ some trawlers to "fish" the debris from the water and deposit it in barges, or perhaps a large cargo ship, for return to land for processing at temporary facilities that could utilize existing warehouse structures already along the ports.

In this fashion we could economically and efficiently retrieve all of the trash floating out there in that, that, clump, within perhaps a month's time at most if ship movements were closely coordinated via satellite/aerial surveillance to achieve the most efficient net dispersal and retraction.

As such, I fail to see where I've "ignore[d]" any "realities [or] logistics". On the contrary, you've merely ignored providing me the common courtesy of allowing me to explain myself, a common "etiquette" involved in discussions.

Who knows, perhaps even someone such as yourself could manage to catch a real beauty like this...if you're lucky>>>

But you don't seem to be so lucky....;-)



p.s. Some helpful advice can be found here: How To Behave On An Internet Forum (Technology: Social Networking)

 

[just-an-allusion]

Doug

I've given it some thought and it occurs to me that I do not know exactly what to feel about having a thread devoted entirely to me.... Should I be flattered, intimidated, or repulsed? Is this a form of E-stalking or mockery?? Should I be worried???

 

[JRP3]

Another long rambling post from you that has nothing at all applicable to battery powered cars. We've endlessly discussed the dead end that is hydrogen, and the most important aspect of a BEV is the "B". I know quite well how to interact in forums, and in all the time I've been here I've never been reprimanded, but thanks anyway. For the first time ever I may have to use the "ignore" feature....

 

[JRP3]

You see, deep sea fishing trawlers are in the practice of dragging rather large nets that hold literally tons of fish.

Of course you ignore the fact that fishing in that manner is practical only because those tons of fish are highly valuable, much more so than tons of plastic. A single tuna can bring $20,000 or more compared to pennies for the same amount of dirty mixed plastic that would need a lot of processing and energy input to even be usable. Fuel needs to be paid for, as do workers and maintenance on the vessels and nets. You can't do that carrying tons of near worthless plastic. You're also not the first to think about "harvesting" that mess in the ocean, but most can quickly calculate it as a losing proposition.

 

[doug]

I've given it some thought and it occurs to me that I do not know exactly what to feel about having a thread devoted entirely to me.... Should I be flattered, intimidated, or repulsed? Is this a form of E-stalking or mockery?? Should I be worried???

Honestly, it's not a good sign. See for instance http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/off-topic/1361-finkenbusch.html and http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/off-topic/1546-chimpanzees-big-project.html.

Finkenbusch often said random inflammatory and crazy stuff that veered threads off on wild tangents. Chimpanzee actually seems like a pretty smart guy; he'd have very long posts that were sometimes interesting. But the common problem between the two is that they were very often off topic. They were such egregious repeat offenders that it was too much work to try to comb through their stuff and split up posts into appropriate threads or to create new ones. So posts that were too convoluted or too random to deal with (and often the subsequent responses) went into their own personal off-topic threads, which most members chose to ignore. Yes, this has started with you as well. Understand that you've gotten much more hand holding than most. So try your best not to be that guy.

 

[no96]

I was under the impression that Finkenbush, Chimpanzee, Ispiration and Just-an-illusion
were all the same person ;-)