Just come across the phantom braking issue, considering canceling my order

[Droschke]

Hmm, then is autosteer what people are calling autopilot? I have set autosteer to activate with a double click.

Correct.

 

[zoomer0056]

They are not the same thing.

AP operates on the top of TACC, and that's why you can activate TACC without AP.

If you activate AP, that always activates TACC.

I had to look this up from the horses mouth: Tesla dicumentation. It is more correct to say TACC and AS are features of AP. You can configure what features AP has qhen you enguage it. You can not "enguage TACC without AP". TACC is just one feature of AP.

 

[Droschke]

I had to look this up from the horses mouth: Tesla dicumentation. It is more correct to say TACC and AS are features of AP. You can configure what features AP has qhen you enguage it. You can not "enguage TACC without AP". TACC is just one feature of AP. View attachment 848374

Autopilot includes several features. Autosteer is just one of them. Other features, depending on the car's configuration, are:

Traffic-Aware Cruise Control
Auto Lane Change
Autopark
Summon
Smart Summon
Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning
Navigate on Autopilot
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

 

[zoomer0056]

Autopilot includes several features. Autosteer is just one of them. Other features, depending on the car's configuration, are:

Traffic-Aware Cruise Control
Auto Lane Change
Autopark
Summon
Smart Summon
Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning
Navigate on Autopilot
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

It is more correct to say AP has two features. The other features you talk about are part of EAP

 

[Mark II]

4 years and they have not fixed the auto wipers. It could also simply be, that they are so damn focused on FSD, FSD, FSD!! They have not really had resources allocated on ‘small stuff’ like phantom braking. Or auto wipers. Or auto headlights. Or the UI. Or..

Nevermind.

FWIW, I find auto wipers work much better on my 2022 S vs my 2018 S. Which is fortunate, since there is no longer a stalk to control the wipers!

 

[azred]

Is this as bad as it sounds? Just came across some discussion from Tesla owners(!) who are really upset about the phantom braking that is still presently an issue. It sounds like a really scary problem. At this point I’m considering canceling my Tesla order because this is a hard safety dealbreaker I haven’t come across in any other vehicles I was cross-shopping. Is it only some some cars? I have a 22 Model S with only Autopilot on order.

You should definitely cancel your Model S order. I have two Teslas with FSD Beta on both and love them but I can tolerate a hard safety dealbreaker — or even two of them.

 

[PACEMD]

You think phantom braking is bad, wait 'till you have to tap the screen twice when driving in traffic at 100 mph because you're curious what your tire pressure is.........

 

[Mark II]

I phantom brake when I see a police car in case I was going too fast (my wife hates that) .. the car is doing it if some thing is spooking the AP or EAP ( it can some times be the wrong series of shadows . I use FSDb regularly and any hesitation is now when it seems warranted if some thing was about to happen and if I am attentive enough i saw it too. in the past yes .very occasionally It would it brake out of the blue and wonder what was it reacting to but never that significant . I have a fully upgraded 5 YR old MS so I cannot speak to MY or M3 vision issues. I would say test drive things. if you plan on using AP or EAP ( or specially FSD) and would like to not pay attention while driving . this isnt ready and isnt for you . if you really only want it for lane keeping and TACC , others now have comparable capabilities. me Im in it for the FSDb and the " science experiment"

So far in this thread I have only mentioned PB in the context of AP (i.e. on the freeway). My experience of PB with FSDb is substantially worse. I can't even drive 2 miles without it breaking multiple times, for no reason. I get it is still Beta, so to be expected. Just wanted to mention my experience is obviously not like yours. It may have something to do with the roads I am driving versus yours. Near my house the roads and narrow, bendy, with lots of trees in the center island, shadows all over, etc. It freaks out all the time!

 

[mvotb]

I've frequently seen people say it's startling, and many people in this thread are corroborating that and saying they turn off AP. Well, that would defeat the whole purpose of getting a Tesla, at least for my circumstances.

It would seem your reason for buying a Tesla is for a great AP experience. There are more problems with AP than just PB. Since the main reason you are buying is for AP, I think you will be sorely disappointed. IMO AP is not ready for prime time, and never will be with the current hardware in Teslas. If I'm correct on your intentions, I would cancel.

 

[electricguycar]

It would seem your reason for buying a Tesla is for a great AP experience. There are more problems with AP than just PB. Since the main reason you are buying is for AP, I think you will be sorely disappointed. IMO AP is not ready for prime time, and never will be with the current hardware in Teslas. If I'm correct on your intentions, I would cancel.

Holy cow, really? Haha, that's shocking. I thought Tesla was all about the AP. Well, the next best thing is the EV range of course. Considering that the 2022 Hyundai I have hasn't had a hitch on things like ACC and lane centering/autosteer (the most important features for me, cruising features), I suppose I will have to heavily considering cancelling, especially with the rest of the responses in this thread pointing out Tesla issues.

 

[PACEMD]

People don't always use the terminology consistently but I will add that with my M3P, I have FSD and now FSD-beta, and have driven most of my 50k plus miles on the freeway using NOA (navigate on autopilot), which is not the same as AP (autopilot). I have had phantom breaking only a few times and other than that it drives me to work and back, at 150 miles one way, with me very rarely having to intervene. I just get in and say navigate to work or navigate home. Works as close to flawlessly as possible. AP however is a different creature. That I don't like. On my trips, the software sometimes gets degraded from NOA to AP, when weather interferes with the cameras. AP is way more work/effort requiring my supervision. In short, and for me, NOA is what makes my Tesla a Tesla, without it, it ain't that thing......

 

[PACEMD]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. The old EAP, enhanced autopilot, which had gone away and recently reappeared, is like NOA.

 

[PACEMD]

Autopilot includes several features. Autosteer is just one of them. Other features, depending on the car's configuration, are:

Traffic-Aware Cruise Control
Auto Lane Change
Autopark
Summon
Smart Summon
Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning
Navigate on Autopilot
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

Right, that's not accurate, these are not features of AP but rather NOA or EAP.

 

[electricguycar]

People don't always use the terminology consistently but I will add that with my M3P, I have FSD and now FSD-beta, and have driven most of my 50k plus miles on the freeway using NOA (navigate on autopilot), which is not the same as AP (autopilot). I have had phantom breaking only a few times and other than that it drives me to work and back, at 150 miles one way, with me very rarely having to intervene. I just get in and say navigate to work or navigate home. Works as close to flawlessly as possible. AP however is a different creature. That I don't like. On my trips, the software sometimes gets degraded from NOA to AP, when weather interferes with the cameras. AP is way more work/effort requiring my supervision. In short, and for me, NOA is what makes my Tesla a Tesla, without it, it ain't that thing......

Oh! Wildcard! Haven't seen somebody mention NOA yet. This actually sounds fantastic. Thanks for your input. There's more to the Tesla features than I expected. I'll make sure I at least do a proper dive into all of them before cancelling.

So, setting a destination then letting AP do the work, called "NOA" is still using AP, but for whatever reason is not as problematic as AP by itself? That's puzzling. I'll have to look into this more. I mean if NOA is somehow way better though, that seems to accomplish exactly what I want out of the cruising features.

Wait, people said they've switched to manual to get away from AP. Why wouldn't they switch to NOA instead?

And does anyone know why NOA could be better than AP? Does just AP allow more input to the driver, adding more "safety measures" for the systems to process, those of which alone are problematic?

 

[Droschke]

Right, that's not accurate, these are not features of AP but rather NOA or EAP.

What I posted was literally copied from the owners manual. You can argue with the Tesla Manual if you wish.

 

[PACEMD]

What I posted was literally copied from the owners manual. You can argue with the Tesla Manual if you wish.

Perhaps I cannot argue with the manual, but I can argue with a misinterpretation of that manuel. You listed the features of NOA or EAP, not AP. Look at the post by zoomer0056 just after yours. Take a deep breath and read it all again. Then come back here and correct your statements.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

Oh! Wildcard! Haven't seen somebody mention NOA yet. This actually sounds fantastic. Thanks for your input. There's more to the Tesla features than I expected. I'll make sure I at least do a proper dive into all of them before cancelling.

So, setting a destination then letting AP do the work, called "NOA" is still using AP, but for whatever reason is not as problematic as AP by itself? That's puzzling. I'll have to look into this more. I mean if NOA is somehow way better though, that seems to accomplish exactly what I want out of the cruising features.

Wait, people said they've switched to manual to get away from AP. Why wouldn't they switch to NOA instead?

And does anyone know why NOA could be better than AP? Does just AP allow more input to the driver, adding more "safety measures" for the systems to process, those of which alone are problematic?

That’s not an accurate understanding. NOA is an incremental feature that allows car (while on AP) to automatically change lanes, take exit ramps, etc.

Basic AP consists of TACC and lane keeping. And it works just fine. Very little phantom braking, but per many comments you must pay attention to lane and traffic conditions. EAP adds a few features like auto lane change and summon. FSD adds even more to include stoplight recognition, navigation on city streets, etc. Those don’t work great (IMO).

 

[Mark II]

Oh! Wildcard! Haven't seen somebody mention NOA yet. This actually sounds fantastic. Thanks for your input. There's more to the Tesla features than I expected. I'll make sure I at least do a proper dive into all of them before cancelling.

So, setting a destination then letting AP do the work, called "NOA" is still using AP, but for whatever reason is not as problematic as AP by itself? That's puzzling. I'll have to look into this more. I mean if NOA is somehow way better though, that seems to accomplish exactly what I want out of the cruising features.

Wait, people said they've switched to manual to get away from AP. Why wouldn't they switch to NOA instead?

And does anyone know why NOA could be better than AP? Does just AP allow more input to the driver, adding more "safety measures" for the systems to process, those of which alone are problematic?

Personally I experience PB equally with NOA and AP. The fact that the previous poster only uses AP when the weather is bad would suggest the weather may be causing his problems more than AP vs NOA?

 

[electricguycar]

That’s not an accurate understanding. NOA is an incremental feature that allows car (while on AP) to automatically change lanes, take exit ramps, etc.

Basic AP consists of TACC and lane keeping. And it works just fine. Very little phantom braking, but per many comments you must pay attention to lane and traffic conditions. EAP adds a few features like auto lane change and summon. FSD adds even more to include stoplight recognition, navigation on city streets, etc. Those don’t work great (IMO).

What I'm seeing on the website right now is that NOA is under EAP, not FSD.

 

[Hunt3r]

Is this as bad as it sounds? Just came across some discussion from Tesla owners(!) who are really upset about the phantom braking that is still presently an issue. It sounds like a really scary problem. At this point I’m considering canceling my Tesla order because this is a hard safety dealbreaker I haven’t come across in any other vehicles I was cross-shopping. Is it only some some cars? I have a 22 Model S with only Autopilot on order.

For what it's worth, I've never had it.