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Just come across the phantom braking issue, considering canceling my order

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My gosh, being prepared for long shadows sounds miserable. The whole point for me is the AP and mental stress reduction. One great thing about the Hyundai I have is that it consistently reads lines that are barely marked, either during the day or at night, extremely well. Really surprised me.
I still use AP, because I do find it relaxing on long drives, even with the PB. YMMV.

It does not do it for all shadows. Somehow I know which ones, and they are seldom. I think my own NN has been programmed to adapt :)
 
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Is this as bad as it sounds? Just came across some discussion from Tesla owners(!) who are really upset about the phantom braking that is still presently an issue. It sounds like a really scary problem. At this point I’m considering canceling my Tesla order because this is a hard safety dealbreaker I haven’t come across in any other vehicles I was cross-shopping. Is it only some some cars? I have a 22 Model S with only Autopilot on order.
At this point in time it may be a deal breaker for you. Since Tesla is going vision only for all their cars it may be some time before this issue goes away. I predict that future iterations of the cars, with a new sensor suite will fix this but older cars will be stuck as they are. However you may be a nervous wreck waiting for that day to arrive.
 
I think it is a serious issue. If someone in front of me going 75 mph on the highway suddenly hit the brakes and slowed to 65 I would think it is a big deal. If more and more cars start doing this it will be bad. Tesla just isn't taking it seriously. It has been happening for years, they are so obsessed with FSD, they give this kind of lip service. Otherwise it would be fixed. If you consider the EAP is worth $6K then Autopilot must be worth about the same, and if it is so bad you can't use the feature, you are losing $6K of what you paid for. Tesla fans giving Tesla a pass on this are part of the problem. Telsa needs to grow up and be a big boy car company now. This is just not a priority; I hope the NTSB forces some action. I rented two M3 just for a few days and I had one case of PB and it really surprised me. No one around me and now I know what it is like. It just undermines the drivers trust in the system. If your steering wheel spontaneously cut right and left I bet folks might think that is a problem. If the accelerator suddenly gave the car full throttle it would be a problem. PB is a problem. The driver and passenger need to have trust in the car.
 
To my startled passengers, it's very severe.
That’s because you don’t recognize it soon enough or know the places to avoid it in the first place. It takes a LOT of time. I used to be outraged about it. Now it’s totally a non issue. My wife used to hate too. Now she doesn’t even notice it. And it doesn’t take white knuckled to catch it. It just comes natural after a lot of driving with it.

It also has improved quite a bit over time.

Be great if it never did it all. But it’s the software erroring on the cautious side.
 
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Ah this was my other consideration. I get lane centering/adaptive cruise control in my Hyundai for the reduce in mental stress while driving, but I NEVER try to do something else other than being alert to the road while driving. I was thinking this phantom braking could be coming across more severe for the Tesla drivers who treat driving as something they now no longer need to be as attentive to. But I would always be attentive. If it's really simple to catch it and accelerate if you're constantly paying attention to the road, that's understandable. I just wonder then how freaky/sudden/startling is the phantom braking? I've frequently seen people say it's startling, and many people in this thread are corroborating that and saying they turn off AP. Well, that would defeat the whole purpose of getting a Tesla, at least for my circumstances.
If you’re paying attention to your surroundings it’s a quick move to continue accelerating. honestly for me it’s not a big deal. It’s got over 50k AP1 miles and over 12k vision miles and still use it all the time.

There are soooo many people that truly Turn on AP and think. Oh. I can text. Or I can do this or that. That’s really not the point of it. (At some point maybe. But we aren’t there yet)

The pure enjoyment you’ll have driving the tesla will far exceed the few times it happens.
 
I think PB is a problem, and it is potentially dangerous. The difficult part is it happens suddenly and unpredictably. For example, just the other day, a fire engine with no siren is in training or for whatever reason is zig-zagging through a highway and he is tailgating in my back (WTH ?) If there is phantom braking and if both drivers just have slower reactions, then an accident is bound to happen. Even if Tesla's driver is not texting or doing something stupid, there are times when a perfect storm ... Technology is not perfect for any company, and this thing happens.
 
I think PB is a problem, and it is potentially dangerous. The difficult part is it happens suddenly and unpredictably. For example, just the other day, a fire engine with no siren is in training or for whatever reason is zig-zagging through a highway and he is tailgating in my back (WTH ?) If there is phantom braking and if both drivers just have slower reactions, then an accident is bound to happen. Even if Tesla's driver is not texting or doing something stupid, there are times when a perfect storm ... Technology is not perfect for any company, and this thing happens.
Don’t forget to include all the times the AP correctly brakes faster than your reaction time. Also with FSD I’ve initiated a lane change when some nut job suddenly decides to pass from behind just as the car was moving into the passing lane. The car aborted before I even noticed.

I feel safer with AP than without and hate driving my other car that doesn’t have it. If I have the family with me I always take the safest car. The S on Vision running AP.
 
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Don’t forget to include all the times the AP correctly brakes faster than your reaction time. Also with FSD I’ve initiated a lane change when some nut job suddenly decides to pass from behind just as the car was moving into the passing lane. The car aborted before I even noticed.

I feel safer with AP than without and hate driving my other car that doesn’t have it. If I have the family with me I always take the safest car. The S on Vision running AP.
Of course, there are good, there are bad, and commenting on the bad experience doesn't preclude the good thing. Win some, lose some. I found AP has good things but also numbs my reaction after long and frequent use.
 
Ah this was my other consideration. I get lane centering/adaptive cruise control in my Hyundai for the reduce in mental stress while driving, but I NEVER try to do something else other than being alert to the road while driving. I was thinking this phantom braking could be coming across more severe for the Tesla drivers who treat driving as something they now no longer need to be as attentive to. But I would always be attentive. If it's really simple to catch it and accelerate if you're constantly paying attention to the road, that's understandable. I just wonder then how freaky/sudden/startling is the phantom braking? I've frequently seen people say it's startling, and many people in this thread are corroborating that and saying they turn off AP. Well, that would defeat the whole purpose of getting a Tesla, at least for my circumstances.
No, just drive the Tesla.
 
I was considering canceling for the same reason but did a pretty major deep dive onto the trends in frequency and intensity of PB events over last 3 years (in addition to just polling forums like this). What seems to be a pattern is PB consistently occurring with a set of factors that all have to occur together: 1) driving on a long straight 2-lane road; 2) very hot sunny day creating “mirage” on road which car misinterprets as a car; 3) no other cars in sight in front of your car. The only other consistent trigger WAS driving on 2-lane roads and having a semi approach from other lane, but this seems to have disappeared from threads about PB. Another associated factor seems to be that these events occurr in rural/remote areas, ie driving past fields/farms/desert etc rather than structures. Haven’t nailed that last observation down with certainty but I did notice a trend.

The only other factor I’ve noticed people discuss is that on certain areas of certain roads and highways, drivers experience consistent PB events (apparently I-40 in FL is riddled with triggers) and are eventually able to predict exactly where it will occur and correct for it. Note that these events do not sound like major hardcore braking so much as “slowdowns”.

Also note that in many forums discussing PB, users who have had their new vision-only MYs since ‘21 seem to consistently report a significant reduction in frequency and intensity of PB events.

I encourage you to do a similar “deep dive” and explore what I’ve reported here. I found enough that convinced me to take delivery 2 days ago. Very glad I did and I’m using AP whenever I can. I watched as many YT videos as I could going back to 2019, and literally scoured this site, Reddit, and others, in addition to reading articles on websites etc.
 
I drove a VW Golf R for 3.5 years with Adaptive Cruise Control. Phantom braking occurred precisely zero times in those 3.5 years.
Same story- every other car in my family that has ACC and lane keep assist has never had phantom braking. The thing that just busts my doilies is that my AP1 car has never ever had a single instance of PB, and I can go hours on the freeway without touching the steering wheel thanks to a wheel weight. It's just so freaking disappointing after driving a new Y and a new 3 that Tesla has gone backwards on this issue. And weird to see people giving Tesla a pass for it.

My dad's '22 Y really does slam on the brakes for no reason, many times in a single drive. It isn't a gentle decline in speed. I just hate when Tesla fanboys try to minimize it as whiny FUD instead of the issue that it really is. Good for them, that means their cars don't have the issue. Congrats, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue for the people who do have the problem.
 
I drove 7,600 miles in the past 3 months and had phantom brake issues a total of 3 times. One was a bit heavy and the other two were minor.

AP2 car 2017 MS. FSD owner although not part of program at this time.

Two of the 3, happened when going over a crest in the road with a sign overhead and the other was when crossing a bridge.

I rest my foot on the accelerator and can compensate quickly if needed.

Is Tesla worse compared to others? Sounds like it. Could they be better and should Tesla improve it? Yes.

Is it “sky is falling” for me? No.
 
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I drove 7,600 miles in the past 3 months and had phantom brake issues a total of 3 times. One was a bit heavy and the other two were minor.

AP2 car 2017 MS. FSD owner although not part of program at this time.

Two of the 3, happened when going over a crest in the road with a sign overhead and the other was when crossing a bridge.

I rest my foot on the accelerator and can compensate quickly if needed.

Is Tesla worse compared to others? Sounds like it. Could they be better and should Tesla improve it? Yes.

Is it “sky is falling” for me? No.

Well said. The sky definitely isn’t falling with the phantom braking issue. I just don’t use the Autopilot. Problem solved. I didn’t buy FSD because the technology just isn’t there yet. At least not for me. Everything else about my Tesla makes up for the Phantom Braking, and all the other annoyances. When a competitor comes out with a car that comes close to competing with my Tesla, I’ll definitely take a look at it. Until then, the car is awesome and I don’t mind driving “manually”.
 
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This is also disingenuous.

1.7 million CARS, 278 reports.

0.00016% of potentially affected owners filed a report.

Not sure what the Tesla numbers are, but I’m willing to bet there have been more than 278 phantom braking events across the Tesla fleet in the time it took me to write this response.
The 2022 Model Y alone has 251 complaints tagged to “forward collision avoidance”, all this stuff is publicly reported and tracked by the NHTSA


Scroll down to the bottom to view and read complaints etc, and you can see how many are tagged against which category

Of course we need to consider things like volume and model year, since most of the stuff Tam posted is very high volume affordable models from as far back as 2017 versus a brand new model year Y that sells for Premium/Luxury prices.

We also need to distinguish model years here with Tesla as the phantom braking issues skyrocketed with the 2021+ models and reliance on Vision, which is why the NHTSA’s phantom braking investigation specifically focuses on 2021+ Models 3 and Y.

I think the 2021+ Model S and X also don’t experience issues to the same degree as I believe those still came equipped with the typical sensor setup with radar etc
 
Well said. The sky definitely isn’t falling with the phantom braking issue. I just don’t use the Autopilot. Problem solved. I didn’t buy FSD because the technology just isn’t there yet. At least not for me. Everything else about my Tesla makes up for the Phantom Braking, and all the other annoyances. When a competitor comes out with a car that comes close to competing with my Tesla, I’ll definitely take a look at it. Until then, the car is awesome and I don’t mind driving “manually”.
I bought all of AP, TACC and FSD for 5k during the “fire sale”. I wouldn’t pay today’s prices for it.

As other posters have said, you learn where potential issues are and just be prepared. Maybe some on here have possessed cars, don’t know. Maybe newer cars have different issues. I can only speak to my experience.