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Just purchased Michelin PSS and would like feedback regarding them vs PS2?!

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by soooma, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. soooma

    soooma Member

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    Just purchased TO Michelin PSS and would like feedback regarding them vs PS2?!

    Haven't mounted them as of yet as i got the rear tires 265 35 21 and waiting for my set to wear out!!

    And would it be ok to have PSS on the rear and PS2 on the front ?! Same brand and almost same characteristics!!

    Educate me tire gurus!
     
  2. cab

    cab Member

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    I have to believe it would be OK to put PSS on with PS2s given the nature of these two tires (i.e. it isn't like you are mixing and matching PS2s with the Goodyear touring tires). In addition, shops tend to put the new tires on the rear these days (even if you want fronts replaced - they then rotate the rears to the front when possible). I am very interested to hear how you like the PSSes and how they compare toe PS2s in terms of ride comfort and noise levels (the PS2s grip and ride well, IMO, but are pretty noisy on anything other than smooth blacktop).
     
  3. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    #3 redi, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
    If you are talking about the new Pilot Super Sport Acoustic tire in staggered 245/35R21 and 265/35R21, I put them on my P85+ today, and removed a set of reasonably fresh (more than half tread) PS2s. I purchased these PSS Acousics on impulse as I like to have quiet tires. For the last year I've been running 19" wheels with OEM Michelin Primacies on my P85+ and I think these are also generally very very quiet tires, albeit more compliant.

    When the PSS Acoustic tires arrived, I returned my original 21" staggered wheels and PS2s into service until I got to the shop and swapped tires.

    I am afraid I can't yet give you any sport/performance input, and since they have only been on the car today, I cannot give you any wet weather input. But I can tell you that the PSS Acoustic tires are indeed quiet and an improvement on PS2s and, to my ears, and improvement on the Primacies in some ways.

    Caveat - tire noise is very subjective and my ears are not 20 years old... and quite a bit of my high frequency hearing has evaporated through years of airplanes, motorcycles, shooting sports, rock & roll... and age. I also believe as these types of tires wear they get louder and louder. When new they are the most quiet they are ever going to be. Maybe other types (Off-road or Mud/Terrain) tires wear off the tread blocks they get quieter, but that's another matter.

    The Primacies were quiet but had a lot of "ping" to them on concrete seams and such. Liken it to a tin drum ring when contacting a seam in the road surface. Possibly because they carried a higher inflation pressure, I don't know (not an expert). Dead quiet on asphalt, but they do sing somewhat on rough concrete highways. I never could quite "hear them rolling" (a lower frequency) like I could with the PS2s.

    The PS2s don't have the ping but, again, I could "hear them roll", and I don't find that noise irritating. Dead quiet on asphalt, but singed *like a banshee* on concrete. I started carrying and using earplugs for long highway trips on these concrete roads with the PS2s (never felt or heard the need to use the earplugs with the Primacies - never said *holy ** those tires are driving me nuts!*).

    After 1 day with the PSS Acoustics: have the "rolling" noise of the PS2s, but none of the "ping" of the Primacies and about the same concrete noise as the Primacies. Right now I say it is a win. I have a couple more of test concrete roads to try, but I would guess half or less concrete noise that the PS2s had.

    Sorry if this is not an answer to your question, and I have no sport performance input or wh/mi info so far.

    BTW, I think I'll have a freshish set of PS2s for sale if any of the DFW area needs some P85+ tires on the cheap, feel free to pm me.
     
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  4. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    Whether the difference to my ear is a result of the PSS itself, or being a fresh new tire, or the acoustic liner is unknown. Either way, it seems a noise win over the prior PS2s.

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  5. cab

    cab Member

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    I very much look forward to hearing your longer term feedback on these tires Redi. I am actually back on my 21" PS2s do to an oddball situation (my Goodyear touring 19s got WATER in them during shipping and the foam held onto it... had to get them dismounted and let them dry out for 4 days). Anyway, I really appreciate the grip of the PS2s, and certainly the look of the 21s, but after just a couple of weeks I'm already getting a bit tired of the noise again (and my PS2s probably only have a 1000 miles on them). I am impressed that you say the PSSes ride about as quiet as the primacies on our concrete roads. I do have some sound deadener to install, but that's for another thread.

    As an aside, the foam in the Goodyears looks identical to the foam in your Michelins.
     
  6. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    For those interested, I have an 80 mile trip I take fairly regularly that has an assortment of road surfaces with the destination about +300' higher in altitude from the start. I probably do this trip 15 times per year or more, same time of day (and the ast two trips about the same weather). But the last two times I have the TeslaFi data..

    I still think the PSS Acoustics are nearly as quiet as the Primacy tires. Not quite but reasonably close. The PSS have maybe a more low frequency rolling hum, but none of the basketball "ping" sound hitting seams. Unfortunately I have no TeslaFi data with the PS2s, but the PSS (with < 1000 miles on them) do not have the scream of the PS2s on rough concrete at highway speeds.

    While not anything like the a scientific study, the PSS are not as efficient as the Primacy tires by what seems to me a sizable amount. I drive this trip the same way at the same speeds.

    TeslaFi tagged:

    - Michelin PSS Acoustics (staggered) at 356 wh/mi 85.3% efficiency both ways - I used 92 rated miles each way for a 78.5 mile trip.
    - Michelin 19" OEM base Primacy at around 320 wh/mi and 95-96% efficiency. 79 and 80 rated miles for a 78.5 mile trip.

    I'd expect a fatter, low profile tire to suck some electrons, but this seems like a lot, something like 11% worse. Maybe it is all due to the size.

    No PS2 data unfortunately.
     
  7. electrish

    electrish I Sing the Body Electric

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    redi, please keep us updated on the PSS Acoustics!

    Similar to you, my hearing is worsening rapidly, but I have always hated the loud road noise of my staggered PS2s, even when they were brand new.
    It was an eye-opener when I switched to the X-ice last winter, which were whisper-quiet in comparison to the PS2s, albeit 19" as well.
    I have been waiting for the staggered PSS to become available and would wait for the Acoustics, if you can confirm that they're quieter than the PS2s with comparable performance. Longevity is not the issue, since the PS2s are shredded with little more than 20k miles on them.

    Thanks!
     
  8. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    #8 redi, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    I am happy to update you with my perception in anticipation others with better testing equipment than my ears will give a contrary opinion. But I think everyone's hearing and perceptions might differ.

    I still have only had them on less than a month (and less than 1000 miles), but based on the lack of noise I plan on leaving the staggered 21" wheels and PSS Acoustics on my P85+. I really liked the silence of the 19" Primacy too except for the basketball ping, so this is saying a lot that I am willing to leave them on for the foreseeable future.

    I had the PSS whistling noticeably on a concrete stretch the other day but changed speed a few mph and it stopped. This is not what the PS2's would do (they'd scream on certain concrete surfaces at any highway speed).

    I'm pretty attentive to alignment and rear toe/camber in particular and visit a track shop regularly to check what is going on (and have the longer OpenEV rear upper links too). This after being burned on bad SC alignments and shredded rear PS2s from the early days. I am hoping for fairly long rear life on fairly expensive tires. The fronts, regardless of brand seem to last a good while.

    Performance? Can't say and other's will have to comment. My (2nd) drive unit is completely silent and I think that is correlated to some degree to the weight of one's right foot on the P85+. :)

    PS - I have to add that ordering from TireRack was a doddle. Never used them before but they took my money shipped super fast and had tires on my doorstep in a couple of days. These guys seem to have it down to an art form. Customers of my normal track shop typically just receive folks TR orders and wait for their clients to show up. Next time I will probably just ship to them direct.
     
  9. cab

    cab Member

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    Redi - how would you rate tge ride quality of the PSSes compared to the 19" Michelins and your 21" PS2s...primarily at lower speeds over bumpier surfaces (since I think freeway ride seems similar on most Teslas). I am guessing the 19s perform better and the 21s are more similar than different, but would be interested to hear your assessment nonetheless.
     
  10. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    PSS and the PS2 feel the same to me as far as ride quality - sporty, low-profile tires for a sporty, low profile P85+. Not a lot of tire compliance, but this is exactly what they are supposed to do: be stiff. Not much room between tire and wheel so I would not want them to flex much. I still come back to the car when it is parked and puzzle at how close the wheel rim is to the road surface, particularly apparent on the fronts. I am careful navigating curbs and I don't think I'd ever valet a Tesla with 21" wheels. And I've never rashed a 21 so far.

    The Primacy tires make the P85+ feel more Lexus-like to me. Comfy in normal driving conditions, unlikely to slosh your Starbucks. I think you'd have to pull a major bone head move to rash a 19.

    Not sure I've answered your question exactly, but this is what I've got.
     
  11. cab

    cab Member

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    Thanks Redi, and yes, you answered my question.
     
  12. electrish

    electrish I Sing the Body Electric

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    Thank you very much for the update, redi!

    So if I understand it correctly, you would rate the different tires as PSS Acoustic = PS2 > Primacy in terms of performance/ ride quality and PSS Acoustic = Primacy >> PS2 for reduction in road noise.

    I am also wondering if anyone knows what the difference between the regular PSS and the PSS Acoustics is? I still can't get the regular PSS through Costco and will probably wait until Spring to purchase them, since it's almost winter tire season.

    As an aside, contrary to your RWD P85+, my P85DL is harsher to my front PS2 tires than the rears, which probably means that I am taking tight corners too swiftly. ;-)
     
  13. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    I can't by my seat of the pants tell the difference between the PS2s and the PSS. If there is a difference it is not apparent to me, and I have not pushed either tire in a while. And I've not not autocrossed a MS, I'd think it would feel like autocrossing a bus and I have the P85+ flavor too.

    I think they are quiet enough that I will probably not put my 19" Primacy set back on. That being said, I still do not have 1000 miles on them yet and not driven a lot of the TX/Oklahoma singing concrete highways enough yet.

    I too am curious about the non-Acoustic PSS in these sizes. I'd been anticipating buying the straight PSS in the staggered sizes once the Primacy set wore out. I'd guess that they were nearly as quiet without the acoustic foam liner, but now I am not going to spend $1600 to find out. I saw these at Tire Rack in the staggered P85+ sizes and decided to jump since I did not want another PS2 set or Hankooks. Otherwise I'd still be on the 19" Primacy set and happy with the quiet.
     

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