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Just suspended... Software updates do not reset FSD disengagement counter - disengagements can happen in 1-2 seconds notice and other FSDB gripe/notes

I think this is ridiculous. Tesla is still selling FSD years after promising it with only a beta available. Tesla says watch out because the car can do the most dangerous thing at the most inopportune time. But we are required to hold the wheel tight and shake it almost continuously. In short, we cannot punish Tesla for their faults, but they can punish us for what they think we may have done. I drove with beta for over a year but in the last few weeks I got two strikes while I had my hands on the wheel was paying attention to what I was doing but got kick off without seeing anything or a beep until the red light flashed and I was disconnected.
Please describe the situation; driving speed, traffic, intersection, sun angle, time of day, # of passengers, etc... Was beta acting confused at the time and might you have been super alert looking outside while hoping the car would figure it out?


It is my belief that Tesla wants let people to enjoy the progress being made but they really don't want people stress testing the system. There are professional paid beta testers for that. We average folk who pass the 'responsibility test' are granted the privilege of using it when/where it works well, so long as baby car (AI) has mommy (driver) there for guidance. Moms job is to immediately comfort the child at all times. If child panics and mommy doesn't respond, child gets taken away and parent is judged (perhaps excessively) unworthy. This almost happened to me and something was learned from it.
 
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I am at 4 of 5 strikes myself, and feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I'm on FSD...

My main beef is that 2 of the 4 strikes were not legit, and there is nothing I can do about it. What I learned is that the internal camera better not see your phone in your hand, period. I often hold my phone near / next to my head (not looking at it, not typing) when on a conference call or dictating a text using Siri. I got in the habit of doing this over the years when using the speaker on the phone. It is such a habit now that I often do it even when the phone is actually connected to the car and using the car speakers and microphone... But I can have the other hand on the wheel and be staring at the road and still get a strike because it doesn't like the way I'm holding my phone near my head.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to think I might lose access to the Beta version of software I paid thousands to buy for almost four years ago, and then had to drive like a grandma for 2 months to get access to, just because their safety software doesn't like so see a phone in my hand ever.... VERY VERY frustrating.

When I got my fourth strike I was so upset that I immediately pulled over, took an FSD screen grab, and wrote a long email to FSD challenging them to show me in the video what I did wrong. I know that I will never get a response or anything, but on the off-chance that someone is actually reading those emails maybe it will bring to light to the right people an issue with their system.

(And before any of you holier-than-thou types start at me about how I should have my hands at 10 and 2 and my seat back up and my carry-on baggage stowed whenever I'm on FSD, just save it. Nobody benefits from that, honestly.)
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
11,135
14,376
California
There sure are. But in that one release it was rampant, and Tesla quickly sent a fix.

BTW, the steering nag has been there for a long time. It can't make out if you just keep your hand on the wheel, you need to apply a slight torque from time to time.
This drives me crazy. I get constant nags driving on the freeway even though I have hands on the steering yoke. Long straight stretches don't require any twitching to the steering wheel.
I wish they had a better system... why not use the inside camera?
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,984
9,987
Visalia, CA
...why not use the inside camera?

For Model S and X produced since 2021, they have an interior driver monitor camera.

Others use the camera only but Tesla uses both camera and steering torque.

My guess is Tesla's system is not as reliable as others just yet. Tesla's cabin camera system has to catch up with other companies' first in order to allow hands-free driving without the need for torque monitor.
 
I am at 4 of 5 strikes myself, and feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I'm on FSD...

My main beef is that 2 of the 4 strikes were not legit, and there is nothing I can do about it. What I learned is that the internal camera better not see your phone in your hand, period. I often hold my phone near / next to my head (not looking at it, not typing) when on a conference call or dictating a text using Siri. I got in the habit of doing this over the years when using the speaker on the phone. It is such a habit now that I often do it even when the phone is actually connected to the car and using the car speakers and microphone... But I can have the other hand on the wheel and be staring at the road and still get a strike because it doesn't like the way I'm holding my phone near my head.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to think I might lose access to the Beta version of software I paid thousands to buy for almost four years ago, and then had to drive like a grandma for 2 months to get access to, just because their safety software doesn't like so see a phone in my hand ever.... VERY VERY frustrating.

When I got my fourth strike I was so upset that I immediately pulled over, took an FSD screen grab, and wrote a long email to FSD challenging them to show me in the video what I did wrong. I know that I will never get a response or anything, but on the off-chance that someone is actually reading those emails maybe it will bring to light to the right people an issue with their system.

(And before any of you holier-than-thou types start at me about how I should have my hands at 10 and 2 and my seat back up and my carry-on baggage stowed whenever I'm on FSD, just save it. Nobody benefits from that, honestly.)
Actually nothing holly about it. Driving with a phone is illegal with or without FSD. That’s why they offer hands free. I hated seat belts to but it is what it is. You admitted you disobeyed the law and process of using FSD so own it! Likely if you got pulled over they wouldn’t care about your story either.
 
Actually nothing holly about it. Driving with a phone is illegal with or without FSD. That’s why they offer hands free. I hated seat belts to but it is what it is. You admitted you disobeyed the law and process of using FSD so own it! Likely if you got pulled over they wouldn’t care about your story either.
Might be illegal where you live, but it's certainly not everywhere... This is exactly the kind of response I knew I'd get, tho, so not surprised...
 
I think the few people here with mounting strikes are the exceptions and not the norm. It is not normal behavior to have the system alarm and give you a strike when you're holding the wheel firmly, and there is no blue -> red -> alarm progression on the screen. You likely have a fault in your car somewhere and need to have service repair - up to and including a completely firmware wipe and reload of the software.
 
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Might be illegal where you live, but it's certainly not everywhere... This is exactly the kind of response I knew I'd get, tho, so not surprised...

Texting is Illegal in Ohio for Adults Too​

Under Ohio Revised Code §4511.204, it is unlawful for adults to drive a public road or area while using a handheld device for any text-based communication. This does not include using hands-free or voice-operated features or using a phone in an emergency.

Adult Penalties for Using Phones​

Ohio’s texting while driving ban is a secondary law. Therefore, the police cannot pull adults over for suspected texting. Instead, an officer must notice another violation first. For example, if you weave out of your lane, they can pull the driver over. Then, the police can write you a ticket for unlawful cell phone use.

Adult violators are fined $150, and a new 2018 adds an additional $100 fine for distracted driving while committing a moving violation. The additional $100 fine is sometimes waived if the offender attends a distracted driving education course.
 

Texting is Illegal in Ohio for Adults Too​

Under Ohio Revised Code §4511.204, it is unlawful for adults to drive a public road or area while using a handheld device for any text-based communication. This does not include using hands-free or voice-operated features or using a phone in an emergency.

Adult Penalties for Using Phones​

Ohio’s texting while driving ban is a secondary law. Therefore, the police cannot pull adults over for suspected texting. Instead, an officer must notice another violation first. For example, if you weave out of your lane, they can pull the driver over. Then, the police can write you a ticket for unlawful cell phone use.

Adult violators are fined $150, and a new 2018 adds an additional $100 fine for distracted driving while committing a moving violation. The additional $100 fine is sometimes waived if the offender attends a distracted driving education course.
Did you even read my original post? or is virtue-signaling all that some of you come on these boards to do? I should have known better... I'm out...
 
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Right, but you shouldn't have to remain 'hyper aware' in situations where you are not moving, or at this point really in situations where you are moving 1-2 MPH, a few feet at a time, in stop and go traffic. The Tesla system (as well as many other companies' adaptive cruise control and lane control systems) are really good at this and I can't imagine a situations where it would be able to 'try to kill you' sitting still or creeping in traffic. I am not saying you should be able to zone out, but there is a difference between gripping the wheel and waiting for Tesla to do something wrong, especially when you have learned it probably will do something wrong, vs being a bit more relaxed because there really isn't something it can do wrong at that moment (again like when sitting still, or barely moving in traffic). My arguments have been that they should consider the 'strike' system being set to be a bit less aggressive in extreme low risk situations like that, perhaps give a second or two before handing out 'instant strikes' in these situations. I know that would be something which would take awhile to program and test etc, so maybe in the meantime they could consider removing a strike every certain amount of strike free miles driven so that people who drive way more than average are less likely to get strike out over time.
As with all ADAS-like systems, I do find myself relaxing during some situations on FSD beta, and more tense in others. You learn when and where it tends to be unsure or act strangely. It is a different kind of programming where it’s less cause/effect and less predictable, but it’s still somewhat consistent enough.

I would also caution against assuming certain situations MUST be easy and others must be hard for FSD beta without repeatedly experiencing FSD beta in those situations. Those kinds of misassumptions are exactly why so many (not just some in Tesla) underestimated how hard self-driving is and how long it would take for us to get there.
 
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I definitely think they need a better way for direct user feedback. Some of these issues should be easily fixed if the right engineer learns of it, but a generic report autopilot snapshot getting to an engineer and understanding why you sent it without an explanation, who knows...
The worst part of owning a Tesla is the lack of communication with its customers.
 
After reading your posts it sounds like you got over confident and complacent with FSD so they banned you for that reason. The system picks up on Zoning out, staring into space, not moving the wheel, looking at phone or screen. If you are not staying attentive to the road and keeping your hands on the wheel it'll force disengage! sadly while FSD is enabled your hand must remain on the wheel, there is several reasons FSD could turn the wheel at any moment even sitting still behind another car. Just the other day I was in a weird lane situation in town where I ended up in the right lane behind a stopped car at a red light. but I heard the brake popping a couple times, this kept me on high alert that I knew the car was trying to make some sort of move. finally a min later the wheel torqued to the side and the car started to accelerate into the other lane! I slammed my brake on and torqued the wheel back to keep it in the lane I needed to be in. This is the whole reasons you should not be looking away from the road for any reason stopped or moving while FSD is on. If you need to look down at a light, turn FSD OFF!
 
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I am at 4 of 5 strikes myself, and feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I'm on FSD...

My main beef is that 2 of the 4 strikes were not legit, and there is nothing I can do about it. What I learned is that the internal camera better not see your phone in your hand, period. I often hold my phone near / next to my head (not looking at it, not typing) when on a conference call or dictating a text using Siri. I got in the habit of doing this over the years when using the speaker on the phone. It is such a habit now that I often do it even when the phone is actually connected to the car and using the car speakers and microphone... But I can have the other hand on the wheel and be staring at the road and still get a strike because it doesn't like the way I'm holding my phone near my head.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to think I might lose access to the Beta version of software I paid thousands to buy for almost four years ago, and then had to drive like a grandma for 2 months to get access to, just because their safety software doesn't like so see a phone in my hand ever.... VERY VERY frustrating.

When I got my fourth strike I was so upset that I immediately pulled over, took an FSD screen grab, and wrote a long email to FSD challenging them to show me in the video what I did wrong. I know that I will never get a response or anything, but on the off-chance that someone is actually reading those emails maybe it will bring to light to the right people an issue with their system.

(And before any of you holier-than-thou types start at me about how I should have my hands at 10 and 2 and my seat back up and my carry-on baggage stowed whenever I'm on FSD, just save it. Nobody benefits from that, honestly.)
Your hand should not be on your phone period! they should be on the wheel! sync your phone on bluetooth and do your conference thru the bluetooth! the last strike could of simply been a yellow line fever! it happens to the best of us! I've already gotten 2 strikes on my early morning commute to work so resorted to turnning off FSD in morning and turning it back on in evening!
 

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