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Karma -vs- Model S

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by doug, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I wonder what effect, if any, the recent Tesla announcement that the Model S will launch with a 300 mile range (matching the Karma's full "extended range" while pushing into a similar cost bracket) will have on Fisker reservations. Fisker deliveries are supposedly a year earlier and, though a long time coming, the reviews are generally positive. But there are still some doubts about the drivetrain, and with it's higher cost and poor milage, I wonder if customers would wait the year for a Model S. Are there many trying to decide between the two?
     
  2. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Great observation. I was wondering about Tesla's early timing. Fisker's recent press is a great reason for them to make a pricing - battery announcement right now.
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Not sure that's an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the S and the Karma are more accurate IMO (and Tesla still comes out ahead IMO, other than not being able to gas up if the need arises)
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Considering the massive SUV-sized amount of carrying space in the Model S and the Roadster-sized trunk of the Fisker, I would not make that comparison either.
     
  5. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    #5 AnOutsider, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    I hope the Model S does NOT have that much body roll in the corners
     
  6. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Wouldn't CF have added 30-40% more to the cost of the car though? :scared: ...that price point would be way above the Model S...


     
  7. ljbad4life

    ljbad4life Member

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    The price point is already waaay above a model s :tongue:. it's in the same price ball park as the Roadster. I don't see anything in the Karma that is that expensive. The off the shelf GM ICE? The off the shelf a123 batteries? there was nothing specially design in the power train just for the Karma (quantum had the powertrain ready for military deployment).

    I feel like Fisker padded tons of margin into the price of the Karma to become profitable very quickly.

    If it wants to go head to head with the porsche panamera (like Fisker claims) it doesn't have neither the performance nor price (the slower Panamera that matches the Karma is almost 30k cheaper, the Panamera that matches the Karma's price far out performs it.... and in any instance the Panamera is roomier)

    I will give Fisker tons of credit for the design of the Karma from the ground up. I like the car. excellent fit and finish, I just think some of the materials could have been changed for a vastly superior car.
     
  8. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    I'll bet a fully loaded Sig series with a 300 mile battery is within 15-17% of the cost of a Karma...a Roadster Sport loaded is waaay above the price of a Karma...:tongue::wink:


     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  10. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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  11. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I figured launching the Model S with a 300 mile range would woo some Karma customers. Will they be willing to wait an extra year for it...
     
  12. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    as long as the karma does not hit the road, everything is hypothetical. I would not wonder if Model S would be first.
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Sure. Things can always change. The Karma has already been pushed back a few times. Of course at some point "Whitestar" was supposed to come out in 2010 or thereabouts. I'll be happy to see them both succeed (though I'm definitely a Model S fan).
     
  14. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

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    Yeah, MotorAuthority.com calls Fisker's dates "a running joke." It's already, what, on a 2 year delay?

    I know someone who has a Karma on order. He has what he calls a "supposedly firm date" in this fall for the build, and then delivery is 4-6 weeks later (probably slow boats from Finland). He's very excited about it.

    BTW, have you'all seen what the rear seats look like?
    2012-fisker-karma-rear-seats.jpg

    That big tunnel between the seats reminds me of the Hummer H1:
    X04HM_H1017-interior-800.jpg

    Guess that's what happens when you have batteries and a gas engine and still want a trunk.
     
  15. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

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    There are some good points and concerns but the Karma still continues to get pushed back. I can see why people are comparing the Model S to the Karma because of the batteries but the S does not have a "generator".

    I see the Model S being a bet more successful then the Karma because of the management team, the strong partnerships and the drive train technology. I guess to each is own.
     
  16. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I don't see any reason they couldn't also have a flat pack. If not Model S flat, at least Leaf or even Coda style "flat", especially since they put the exhaust up front. I think it's lack of imagination on Quantum's part; they're just following GM's packaging. But at least GM managed to route the Volt's exhaust to the rear and have enough space for an adequate muffler.

    exhaust.jpg
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Three different cars in three completely different classes:
    The Roadster is a 2 seat, near zero luggage car.
    The Fisker is a 4 seat, near zero luggage car.
    The Model S is a 5+ seat car with tons of cargo volume.

    Several folks I have tried to talk into getting an EV were interested in Fisker until they discovered it didn't have the utility they needed.
    Price, performance, range, operating cost are all moot at that point.
     
  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Isn't that where you're supposed to mount the turret?
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Rust already?
     
  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I think the Karma is about the height of the 911 (~52 inches). With a "flat" pack, it'll probably make the already meager headroom even worse. By comparison the Model S is 58 inches in height, 6 inches taller, which is more than enough to fit the flat pack.
     

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