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Karma -vs- Model S

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by doug, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    I think we are going to see some competition soon as Tesla is due to release options on the Model S next month. Can't wait to see what they are going to offer!
     
  2. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    I think this will get very interesting...

    It would have been cool if the Model S Beta's had been available for test rides at the same time as the Fisker...go head to head so to speak...


     
  3. tomanik

    tomanik Member

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    Release options next month, did I miss an announcement?
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    They have always said late summer (next month), and I confirmed it with one of the sales staff yesterday.
     
  5. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #25 doug, Aug 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    God, I wish he'd stop with the steeple fingers. His "reasons" aren't strong in my opinion, and he dodges mentioning gas. "The first 50 miles will be electric, and after that it just goes" -- yes... on GAS.
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Doug,

    The Fisker battery at half the cost of a Tesla battery does not seem to be a good value.
     
  8. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Well, I guess the guy has to try to sell and differentiate their product. It seems in the journos' minds, Fisker doesn't really exist on it's own. They constantly frame it as "Fisker, the Tesla competitor". I have a few of other vids I put up but haven't really gotten around to labeling.
     
  9. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    But Ray, the Fisker is still has a pollutin' "Farting Frank" ICE with a much higher maintenance cost than a true EV...how do you rationalize this?
     
  10. donauker

    donauker Member

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    Just how familiar are you with the trunk size of the Roadster?

    I have packed the Roadster trunk for many road trips in the last 2 1/2 years and 32,000 miles. After packing the required charge cables and the specially shaped bag we got for the trunk, it becomes an art to fit in all of the remaining necessities a girl requires for a few nights. After opening the trunk of the Karma yesterday it looked huge by comparison and my girlfriend glowed as she exclaimed happily "I'll be able to take all of the shoes I want!". That coupled with the fact that with just the two of us the back seats add a huge amount of additional storage space in comparison to her cramming a few more necessities into her already narrow foot well.

    As far as the shooting-brake is concerned. Yes I consider it ugly just as I consider all of the other shooting-brakes I've seen to be ugly.
     
  11. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Comparing the Karma to the roadster is silly. The Karma's performance is dismal, and it's a 4 door. The Model s is a direct comparison however, and it blows it out of the water in every aspect.
     
  12. donauker

    donauker Member

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    #32 donauker, Sep 14, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
    I agree the comparison is silly but I was responding to the direct statement that the Karma trunk was the size of the Roadster's which is false.

    And I can't imagine you have driven both the Karma and the final version Model S so I don't think you are in any way qualified to make the assertation that it blows it out of the water in every aspect. Maybe it will but that remains to be seen. Having driven the Karma yesterday I can say that it is quite luxurious and the bar for the Model S is quite high in some areas.
     
  13. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    I haven't driven either, but unless Tesla totally misses on the model S specs already released, it's obvious.

    -Model S has gobs more room
    -It's got much better performance
    -uses 0 gas, while it has the same range doing it
    -base price is almost half of the base Karma(this is huge)

    No brainer to most....
     
  14. ljbad4life

    ljbad4life Member

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    What's the cu ft of trunk space on a roadster? what's the cu ft of trunk space on a Karma? Now take that number and divide by the number of of seats and you get how much each person can take. You can minus 1 for the Karma to even give yourself a leg up.
     
  15. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #35 stopcrazypp, Sep 14, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
    I think the Karma is about 7 cubic feet and the Roadster about 6 cubic feet. How it's laid out will also make a difference. The Karma's looks like it has a bigger opening and it's deeper from the end of the car to the rear seats.

    So the Karma is slightly better than the Roadster, but it's definitely by far the worse in its four door class (the 2010 Rapide was the previous worse with about 11 cubic feet).
    4077372959_79d2f3257c.jpg
    tesroa_brianblades_09_19_cd_gallery.jpg
     
  16. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    In which areas? I haven't driven a Karma but from all I've seen and read, the only thing I've seen as a positive is the styling (subjective) and the fact that it's available "now". I put now in quotes since realistically, people won't start getting them until late October, early November.

    This is a serious question btw, not meant to be snark. In your experience, how does the Karma set the bar high for the S?
     
  17. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Some other trunk pics from a Google search that appear to be from about a year ago:

    4753418240_4e334a8f7f_b.jpg
    4753418010_1a88ebeb20_b.jpg

    I had heard a rumor that Fisker had made some changes that increased rear leg room but decreased trunk space. I haven't seen a current trunk photo. (At the Kleiner Perkins media event, they specifically wouldn't show it to us).
     
  18. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Hi Doug,

    Yes, I agree.

    Fisker Karma still waiting for federal certification, deliveries pushed back to November

    It seems that the Karma will be delayed again, but it is still likely that it will beat the Model S.

    Larry
     
  19. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    #39 VolkerP, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2011
    [Moderator's Note: This post moved from this thread: Fisker Surf (Karma wagon)) starting here.]

    This thread has many post full of Fisker bashing. It sounds like most TMC forum members want to reassure each other that they stick to the "correct" car manufacturer. Stating opinion is one thing, but beware of Group Think.
    I think Henrik Fisker designed some drop dead gorgeous cars with Karma and Surf. Remember, he did some design work for Tesla Model S. I am not sure it all got thrown away when Franz took over the task. Take a Model S, rip out the under floor battery pack, make the car crouch down into the free space. Shrink the green house a little. Then add some length to the bonnet, voila. A Karma.
    The rants about practicality, technology, station wagon looks, or USP just miss the point. There is a new luxury car on the road with a partially electric drive train. And Fisker sells the Surf to some oil sheiks in the middle east. That is like selling condoms to the pope - quite an achievement.
     
  20. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #40 TEG, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    As much as I am a big time Tesla fan, I am not stuck on them as the only brand. Heck, I couldn't afford the Roadster, and found the Model S too big (and still a bit too pricey for me), so I settled for a lowly Leaf for now.
    So, with that said, the Karma/Surf/Sunset don't really appeal to me at all. Poor interior space is one, rough running, nasty sounding ICE is another. Generally I don't like to see cars with a really long front nose / hood. Heinrick clearly has major league design chops, and I like attributes of what he has done, but as a total package, I think the Fisker products are "missing the mark."

    Selling to "oil sheiks" doesn't say much. That kind of money ends up buying one of everything exclusive and expensive. If you want your low production vehicle to end up in a warehouse collection...
     

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