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Karstyle Told me they are Overdrawn and Unable to Refund my Deposit

Discussion in 'Model S' started by drewfaulk, Nov 7, 2016.

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  1. drewfaulk

    drewfaulk Member

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    After almost 6 months, and repeated delays, I finally reached out to Karstyle and asked for my deposit back. I was told, after emailing them three times (with no response to one or two of them), that they are overdrawn and unable to issue refunds (their site said it was refundable up to 30 days after delivery as long as fitment seals were not broken, which thankfully, I printed). In any event, lest I be accused of libel, here is their response to my request for a refund, copied and pasted in its entirety:

    All of resources are going into the development of the bumper, and our plan didn't allow for refunds. We expected everyone to wait for the bumper to be developed. I understand and apologise the annoyance frustration caused; however, we have severe financial difficulties. A mass-produced bumper is a complex product that is very expensive to make and cannot be hurried. The cost of developing the product kept on increasing and we ran out of money. The project is heavily in debt, and we are overdrawn at the bank, therefore, we cannot ourselves refund reservation fees when an order is cancelled. You could however, ask your bank to make a chargeback. This will likely result in you quickly getting a refund of your money.

    Thanks to a key supplier awarding credit to us, we can continue to develop the bumper. If you wish to continue with your order, you still have $500 USD credit toward the purchase of a bumper. We are hoping to have a product ready to ship as soon as possible in the New Year.

    Kind regards,

    Karstyle



    So, while I'm certainly sympathetic to a new venture trying to get off the ground, a "customer deposit" is a liability to the vendor until they deliver a product and, in this case, refundable on demand. So, to all the other deposit holders, I thought you'd like to know that the factory in China has spent our money well, and the 8 year olds making the bumpers are appreciative of our generosity (a joke, of course).
     
    • Informative x 3
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  2. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    This is important to know. Shady business practices ultimately are the deathknell for new companies. Glad I waited
     
  3. SoccerMan94043

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    I like their transparency on the chargeback... much better than some other vendors on here (look for the carbon fiber wheel thread).
     
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  4. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    I can't say I didn't see this coming but that's an easy statement to make after the fact.

    To their credit, they are being honest when they tell you to file a chargeback but that's a really bad sign. A chargeback is not a good thing for a company to receive and enough of them will result in the credit card processor putting a reserve on their account or simply closing it. If it's Paypal that's processing their credit cards they will lock that down quickly, as well as any new funds received.

    The fact that they are actively telling people to file chargebacks seems to indicate that they are deep in the red, have no cash flow and don't anticipate having any cash flow in the near future. These are not good signs.
     
  5. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    it sounds like theft by deception, you might condsider filing criminal complaints
     
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  6. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    #6 FlatSix911, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
    Sad to hear this news about the Karstyle bumper.
    Now there is only one vendor left and they are still working on their product after considerable delays ... for January 2017.
    I wish Unplugged Performance success and hope they are able to deliver to the Tesla community. No photos available :cool:

     
  7. UnpluggedP

    UnpluggedP Vendor

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    I sent you a photo by PM
     
  8. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Yes, thanks. I only mentioned that I am unable to post the photo per your agreement :cool:
    Please keep us posted on your progress and good luck! You are the only game in town.
     
  9. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    #9 artsci, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
    Don't count Karstyle out quite yet -- they do appear to have problems but none of us knows for sure if they're fatal.

    And isn't there another vendor who has one under development? TSportline They're taking $500 pre-production deposits, the cost is about $2,500, and they're saying December delivery (I doubt that).
     
  10. UnpluggedP

    UnpluggedP Vendor

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    Ah understood!:D Appreciate you keeping it under wraps. Things are going great on our end so expect some updates shortly.
     
  11. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    Hi, I wanted to thank unpluggedP for sharing the sneak peek pictures of their refreshed front project. It looks great, and they seem to be pretty far along with the final product pretty much ready. Looking forward to seeing the final product
     
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  12. zambono

    zambono Member

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    They should have just done a kickstarter then they would be under no obligation of returning or delivering anything. Reason why I will never find anything on any of those platforms. Much rather wait for a real product and real reviews
     
  13. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Does anyone have any idea if Karstyle is ever going to deliver facelift bumpers? Their web site is still running and they're still taking reservations and claiming on the web site that they'll ship in February. Now that there are other options, before I buy an alternative offered by another vendor I would like to have some measure of confidence that Karstyle is for all intents and purposes not going to deliver.
     
  14. Indpowr

    Indpowr Member

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    Based on my talks with Ben at Unplugged and the time/money that went into the development of there facelift that's what I would go with. vs others and try to get the deposit back.
     
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  15. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    At the same time I posted today's message about Karstyle I also emailed my contact there. His reply? They are in business, have new investors, and will be producing and shipping, with an announcement about all of that coming soon. So our deposits are not down the tubes after all. I happen to prefer Karstyle's approach to the other options -- with it you maintain your existing underside diffuser. My diffuser is carbon fiber and cost much, so I didn't want to give that up.
     
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  16. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Here's the verbatim response I received from Karstyle my question. First the question then the response.

    The rumors on TMC are that Karstyle has gone out of business. I don’t trust rumors of this kind. As you know, I made a $1,500 deposit and was among the first to do so. Are the bumpers going to be made and shipped or should I just kiss the $1,500 goodbye and make other plans?

    "Absolutely, you will receive your bumper! We did hit financial difficulties as the development costs sky-rocketed, but we have restructured. The project will now has new investors and we be rock-solid all the way to market and beyond. There will be an announcement by the end of the month on our website giving full details about the product and our status."
     
  17. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    I WANT IN ON THE SECRET
     
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  18. ElectricTundra

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    #18 ElectricTundra, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
    Be careful about jumping to conclusions about an entrepreneurial venture. I remember much worse with Tesla less than a decade ago.

    There is also a difference in a refund prior to delivery (during development) and one within 30 days after delivery. Ideally they should have made the refund but many entrepreneurial ventures are not set up to do that. They should make that clear in their verbiage though. Some will clearly say that pre-orders are effectively a risky investment and that refunds for a defective or less than expected product are planned but not guaranteed. OTOH, that they would suggest a chargeback is quite concerning.
     
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  19. UnpluggedP

    UnpluggedP Vendor

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    Not a secret anymore! Our Refresh Fascia System is out now.

    Unplugged-Performance-Refresh-Front-Fascia-P85-4.jpg
     
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