Keep phantom drain under control

[teslin_zemljak]

This is what I was whining about. The initial charge was 90%, this was taken at 15% left. The car is set to get ready at 8am during week days, I believe that is responsible for preconditioning. The stand-by and mobile app drain stays high even if I turn of the preconditioning. This drain resulted in driving range reduction to ~180 miles.

At Tesla center they told me that my car is ready for pickup, that battery helth check went great and that excessive drain is normal at lower outside temperatures due to preconditioning. I asked them, ok, what should I do tomorrow when I need to travel and will be away for ~12 days, and and need to leave car at the park and ride. How do I prevent car from dicharging itself, and how do I get home from park anbd ride. Didn't get any answer (they will probably give me an uber voucher, if I am lucky and ask me to leave tesla at home, plugged over holidays).

 

[cappo3]

The batteries changed around Dec 2020 and Jan 2021. Cell chemistry is different and the capacity jumped a few kWh.

Thank you for your answer. I don't see what capacity has to do with the snowflake. Is there any proven difference between the batteries that would justify different behaviour at the same temperature?

I suggest putting in a service ticket referencing the 6% loss due to "standby". Ask them to look at the logs and figure out why it is losing so much in "standby" while it's supposed to be sleeping. They should be able to figure out what process is actually causing the drain.

I tried more than once in the beginning of my ownership. They would not help. Every time I asked, I was told the logs are incredibly complicated and they would have to know exactly "what to look for and when", in order to make any sense of it. Their course of action was for me to text them immediately as soon as I noticed a malfunction so they could at least narrow down the pieces of logs they had to go through.
Make what you want of it. My personal conclusion was to stop recommending Tesla to any of my friends because of the lacklustre Customer Service.

 

[KenC]

View attachment 887980

This is what I was whining about. The initial charge was 90%, this was taken at 15% left. The car is set to get ready at 8am during week days, I believe that is responsible for preconditioning. The stand-by and mobile app drain stays high even if I turn of the preconditioning. This drain resulted in driving range reduction to ~180 miles.

At Tesla center they told me that my car is ready for pickup, that battery helth check went great and that excessive drain is normal at lower outside temperatures due to preconditioning. I asked them, ok, what should I do tomorrow when I need to travel and will be away for ~12 days, and and need to leave car at the park and ride. How do I prevent car from dicharging itself, and how do I get home from park anbd ride. Didn't get any answer (they will probably give me an uber voucher, if I am lucky and ask me to leave tesla at home, plugged over holidays).

So, which model again? Putting your vehicle year and type in the Signature is helpful. I'm assuming it's a SR+? Was it plugged in? Why is it on celsius?

So, 25% used is around 15kWh? Perhaps, the others will know, but can the car use that much total for Preconditioning? How long does it pre-condition? Did you use defrost?

I defrosted once, and it used 7.5kWh, and while Precondition showed 0.9% used, Mobile App showed 5.3% and Standby showed 4.2%. I assume it was all due to preconditioning. Maybe that's what happened.

One thing I'd test is to NOT precondition. See what happens.

 

[brkaus]

Mine says 0 for mobile app. I do use the app & teslafi. I don’t ever precondition.

 

[VT_EE]

Thank you for your answer. I don't see what capacity has to do with the snowflake. Is there any proven difference between the batteries that would justify different behaviour at the same temperature?


I tried more than once in the beginning of my ownership. They would not help. Every time I asked, I was told the logs are incredibly complicated and they would have to know exactly "what to look for and when", in order to make any sense of it. Their course of action was for me to text them immediately as soon as I noticed a malfunction so they could at least narrow down the pieces of logs they had to go through.
Make what you want of it. My personal conclusion was to stop recommending Tesla to any of my friends because of the lacklustre Customer Service.

There is no proven difference, but the change resulted in about 5kWh of additional capacity using the same number of cells. The chemistry might do better at cold temperatures, but only Tesla would know for sure.

 

[teslin_zemljak]

So, which model again? Putting your vehicle year and type in the Signature is helpful. I'm assuming it's a SR+? Was it plugged in? Why is it on celsius?

So, 25% used is around 15kWh? Perhaps, the others will know, but can the car use that much total for Preconditioning? How long does it pre-condition? Did you use defrost?

I defrosted once, and it used 7.5kWh, and while Precondition showed 0.9% used, Mobile App showed 5.3% and Standby showed 4.2%. I assume it was all due to preconditioning. Maybe that's what happened.

One thing I'd test is to NOT precondition. See what happens.

I wrote earler, it is M3 LR 2021. And don't use defrost.

I tried what you suggested that too before taking the car to shop, and makes no diffrence, there is always mobile app and stand by active, I have no control over that. I just left the car this morning in the garage, shut down mobile acess, and power it down. And the car is still humming. Just between me moving car from parking lot to the garage, and checking it after few minutes, it reported ~3% loss on stand by and mobile access. The mob app on my phone was shut down all the time until I had to get in the car.

Btw, the preconditioning is separate category, you can see that in the screenshot I uploaded. Also, if you turn off the preconditioning, the range when you start driving is horrible, and the car stays in reduced regen breaking for quite long (yesterday it took ~45 minutes of driving before regen breaking started to work, because it is -20C here and at the Tesla shop they left car on the lot with preconditioning turned off. By the time I got home, the estimated total range onthe car (charged at ~90% at Tesla center that morning) was ~200 miles. Even if the temp outside is around zero C, the regen limit kicks in if car sits on the parking lot for a while.

I have to leave car for ~10 days, I fully charged it, and I will leave it unplugged and with shut off everything I can thnk ofto see what happens.

This is quite disappointing. I did ask a colleague with a bit older M3 and he has no problem like that. Tesla tech claims it is all good and normal...

 

[teslin_zemljak]

They would not help. Every time I asked, I was told the logs are incredibly complicated and they would have to know exactly "what to look for and when", in order to make any sense of it. Their course of action was for me to text them immediately as soon as I noticed a malfunction so they could at least narrow down the pieces of logs they had to go through.

I had slightly different explanation over the phone - the tech said they have no way of knowing which app is keeping the car up in stand by mode, but they know it is not Tesla app, and strongly suspect Tesla Fi, as I told them I had it first month of ownership of my car, and removed it after, as I described earlier.

He also said it it continue, I need to concact service again, and then they will do something different. He also said there will be service charge to pay, as installing 3rd party apps is not covered by warranty.

This is very shady.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I wrote earler, it is M3 LR 2021. And don't use defrost.

I tried what you suggested that too before taking the car to shop, and makes no diffrence, there is always mobile app and stand by active, I have no control over that. I just left the car this morning in the garage, shut down mobile acess, and power it down. And the car is still humming. Just between me moving car from parking lot to the garage, and checking it after few minutes, it reported ~3% loss on stand by and mobile access. The mob app on my phone was shut down all the time until I had to get in the car.

Btw, the preconditioning is separate category, you can see that in the screenshot I uploaded. Also, if you turn off the preconditioning, the range when you start driving is horrible, and the car stays in reduced regen breaking for quite long (yesterday it took ~45 minutes of driving before regen breaking started to work, because it is -20C here and at the Tesla shop they left car on the lot with preconditioning turned off. By the time I got home, the estimated total range onthe car (charged at ~90% at Tesla center that morning) was ~200 miles. Even if the temp outside is around zero C, the regen limit kicks in if car sits on the parking lot for a while.

I have to leave car for ~10 days, I fully charged it, and I will leave it unplugged and with shut off everything I can thnk ofto see what happens.

This is quite disappointing. I did ask a colleague with a bit older M3 and he has no problem like that. Tesla tech claims it is all good and normal...

Leave it for a few days fully charged unplugged and see the average drain (try to avoid checking on it regularly). Make absolutely sure you disabled all draining features (Sentry, Cabin Overheat, Summon Standby) in all profiles.

Don't put too much trust on the new energy screen break down, it is likely buggy given it just came out recently. I remember people posting the categories it puts energy use in might not be correct.

It seems you are checking on it very regularly (did you ever leave it more than 12-24 hours without checking on it?) The low drain people report usually are after a long while, not just a short while (when car may not have had chance to sleep yet). If it is super cold where you are, while the car is awake, it is trying to keep the battery warm, so would drain significantly more than others in more temperate climates, especially if they park in a garage. If you keep waking it up to check on it, then the overhead losses may be higher than other people. It may also make a difference if you are plugged in vs unplugged (to charge, the car typically needs to warm up battery more).

 

[AAKEE]

I had slightly different explanation over the phone - the tech said they have no way of knowing which app is keeping the car up in stand by mode, but they know it is not Tesla app, and strongly suspect Tesla Fi, as I told them I had it first month of ownership of my car, and removed it after, as I described earlier.

He also said it it continue, I need to concact service again, and then they will do something different. He also said there will be service charge to pay, as installing 3rd party apps is not covered by warranty.

This is very shady.

I have used teslafi for two years soon.
No problems, very good sleeping. I have not changed any teslafi settings.

I helped someone that also used teslafi. After e deep look we found hes settings was different. Sad to say, I do not remember what the setting that was different was, but it fixed the sleeping problem for him.

 

[teslin_zemljak]

Thank,

Leave it for a few days fully charged unplugged and see the average drain (try to avoid checking on it regularly). Make absolutely sure you disabled all draining features (Sentry, Cabin Overheat, Summon Standby) in all profiles.

Don't put too much trust on the new energy screen break down, it is likely buggy given it just came out recently. I remember people posting the categories it puts energy use in might not be correct.

It seems you are checking on it very regularly (did you ever leave it more than 12-24 hours without checking on it?) The low drain people report usually are after a long while, not just a short while (when car may not have had chance to sleep yet). If it is super cold where you are, while the car is awake, it is trying to keep the battery warm, so would drain significantly more than others in more temperate climates, especially if they park in a garage. If you keep waking it up to check on it, then the overhead losses may be higher than other people. It may also make a difference if you are plugged in vs unplugged (to charge, the car typically needs to warm up battery more).

Thanks, to everyone, I have tried all that and talked with a tesla tech over the phone before I posted my first comment.

I am gone for about 10 days and I left the car in garage, unplugged, fully charged, and I also disabled mobile acess to the car, as I read somewhere to try that too. No, I am not checking the car state regularly, I have noticed this drain ~2 months ago because the car is used in very regular regime, as I think I mentioned earlier, and I have noticed that I have to charge it more often (it was still not cold here then). Then the app update came that shows the drain breakdown and I started noticing that stand by and mobile app access during the park are by far the largest drains. Now, whether this data shown in the picture of my screen is correct or result of some bug, that I don't know. But I do know that I am charging car mor often as I don't get nearly similar milage like beefore. I also see that car spends let's say ~35 or kWh on driving, airconditioning, etc, and when charged back it puts ~50+kWh. This is not just Tesla app showing, but I also have energy monitor on the charger, as it is part of my solar system and it is pretty close.

I have noticed also this morning that after I parked the car in the garage, killed everything I can, logged out of the Tesla app, the car was still humming, abou 2 hours later. Now I am gone, so I don't know. I'll see what happens when I come back in January.

...

Just to add here, one of the comentators above asked why is my temp scale in C - well, that is international unit for temperature, why not C?! Just kidding, I am a European living in US for long time, but I never got used to Fahrenheit scale.


Thank you all guys again, I appreciate time and effort and desire to help. I really don't know where else to go for help.

 

[teslin_zemljak]

I have used teslafi for two years soon.
No problems, very good sleeping. I have not changed any teslafi settings.

I helped someone that also used teslafi. After e deep look we found hes settings was different. Sad to say, I do not remember what the setting that was different was, but it fixed the sleeping problem for him.

Thanks, just to repeate this here - as requested by Tesla tech, I emailed Tesla Fi, explained situation, an ask them nicely if maybe their app somehow is accessing the car? They kindly replied, immediatelly, that it does not, as soon as my trial period with Tesla Fi expired, their app stopped accessing the cars. Also they assured me that after I changed the password on my account the tokens they had became invalid, an their access restricted. So, at this point I have no reason to believe that Tesla Fi is causing this problem.

I also liked their app, but I didn't get full version, just played little bit with trial, and then realize I have other things to do in life . But it came to surprise to me that the Tesla technician I was speaking over the phone hinted in that direction, like Tesla Fi is doing something shady, and said how he got lot of complaints, and asked me to request in email from Tesla Fi to disconnect from my car.

 

[InfinitySky]

Thanks, just to repeate this here - as requested by Tesla tech, I emailed Tesla Fi, explained situation, an ask them nicely if maybe their app somehow is accessing the car? They kindly replied, immediatelly, that it does not, as soon as my trial period with Tesla Fi expired, their app stopped accessing the cars. Also they assured me that after I changed the password on my account the tokens they had became invalid, an their access restricted. So, at this point I have no reason to believe that Tesla Fi is causing this problem.

I also liked their app, but I didn't get full version, just played little bit with trial, and then realize I have other things to do in life . But it came to surprise to me that the Tesla technician I was speaking over the phone hinted in that direction, like Tesla Fi is doing something shady, and said how he got lot of complaints, and asked me to request in email from Tesla Fi to disconnect from my car.

I enjoyed reading through this thread since I’m having similar “vehicle standby” drain on my June 2020 SR+. It’s been very annoying and has been around for the life of the car. This sounds like typical Tesla pointing the finger at others. I’ve gotten similar answers in the past from them as well. I’m hoping for a resolution from people in this thread…I do need to check the other profiles in the car to make sure they don’t have summon standby/cabin temp protection on. That’s one thing I’ve never heard in any other discussions on this topic

 

[cappo3]

I had a look this morning at the battery usage pattern of my iPhone. Interestingly it reports background usage from the Tesla app during the night. Three times, at least. The app is always open in the background, the car hasn't been used since Monday. Is there a known reason why the app would need energy at regular intervals during the night?

EDIT: slight correction, the app used more energy at times, but seems to have been active in the background through the whole night. This can't be right... right?

 

[Candleflame]

teslafi is great. i dont notice any additional drain. Though its not that helpful to determine where vampiredrain is coming from.
My car is actually sitting at some (warm) airport and is losing 2%/week or so.

 

[VT_EE]

I had a look this morning at the battery usage pattern of my iPhone. Interestingly it reports background usage from the Tesla app during the night. Three times, at least. The app is always open in the background, the car hasn't been used since Monday. Is there a known reason why the app would need energy at regular intervals during the night?

EDIT: slight correction, the app used more energy at times, but seems to have been active in the background through the whole night. This can't be right... right?

Perhaps you should try removing the phone from the "key" in the car so you only have the key cards as valid keys. Do this for a few days and see if the drain goes away.

 

[cappo3]

Perhaps you should try removing the phone from the "key" in the car so you only have the key cards as valid keys. Do this for a few days and see if the drain goes away.

I'll give this a try. I've wanted to do it for some time, but never came to mind when sitting in the car.

 

[InfinitySky]

I'll give this a try. I've wanted to do it for some time, but never came to mind when sitting in the car.

I’ll be curious to hear your results!

 

[teslin_zemljak]

My flight got cancelled on Friday and I got back home. I left the car alone for ~24 hours and when I reactivated the app and got in the car, the charge dropped ~10%, so no driving whatsoever. Most of it was spent on the stand by, little bit on the app, and some on the preconditionning because I forgot to turn off the 8-am drive prep.

Then I left it another day, but with one major difference - the outside temperature where I live jumped up significantly: today it was ~+10C most of the the day, while the night I left it was ~-20C, but the car was in the garage, so probably ~-5 or little bit lower). The state of charge actually went up ~2% (from 90% to 92%), over the entire day, and no stand by expenditure reported. Also, the car was quiet, like it is dead, it started humming when I turned on the tesla app.

So, it seems that this "stand by" drain is indeed comming from car trying to keep the battery within some temperature range, and not that much from some other app, or the tesla app waking it up frequently. And it must be pretty tight, as I've seen the drains as 8-10% per night with temperatures around -5C.

Now that I think in revese, I am almost certain that this all started being noticeable after one of the Tesla's updates, back in October I think, where one of the items was some "cold weather battery charging improvement" or something like that. I wonder if Tesla tightened the temperature range that the battery has to be held at, for some reason, increased the minimal temperature it can sit at, perhaps to avoid premature aging and capacity loss, or, whatever other reason could be. This is far fetched, of course, and I could be wrong. I just don't know why would they be so shady about it, blaming other apps, sentry mode, me checking app million times a day, and so on.

I'll keep an eye on it as we have more fairly warm days ahead, and then temperature will drop again.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My flight got cancelled on Friday and I got back home. I left the car alone for ~24 hours and when I reactivated the app and got in the car, the charge dropped ~10%, so no driving whatsoever. Most of it was spent on the stand by, little bit on the app, and some on the preconditionning because I forgot to turn off the 8-am drive prep.

Could the preconditioning be your main culprit? I don't think the people reporting 1 mile per day use any preconditioning (nor are they in cold climates). You can't necessarily blame standby, because to precondition, the car obviously is awake for longer than if it didn't need to precondition.

Then I left it another day, but with one major difference - the outside temperature where I live jumped up significantly: today it was ~+10C most of the the day, while the night I left it was ~-20C, but the car was in the garage, so probably ~-5 or little bit lower). The state of charge actually went up ~2% (from 90% to 92%), over the entire day, and no stand by expenditure reported. Also, the car was quiet, like it is dead, it started humming when I turned on the tesla app.

So, it seems that this "stand by" drain is indeed comming from car trying to keep the battery within some temperature range, and not that much from some other app, or the tesla app waking it up frequently. And it must be pretty tight, as I've seen the drains as 8-10% per night with temperatures around -5C.

Now that I think in revese, I am almost certain that this all started being noticeable after one of the Tesla's updates, back in October I think, where one of the items was some "cold weather battery charging improvement" or something like that. I wonder if Tesla tightened the temperature range that the battery has to be held at, for some reason, increased the minimal temperature it can sit at, perhaps to avoid premature aging and capacity loss, or, whatever other reason could be. This is far fetched, of course, and I could be wrong. I just don't know why would they be so shady about it, blaming other apps, sentry mode, me checking app million times a day, and so on.

I'll keep an eye on it as we have more fairly warm days ahead, and then temperature will drop again.

Are the losses when you are plugged in? The battery needs to be above 0C to charge (this is generally true of all lithium ion batteries). The update may just be a coincidence, given temps may have been warmer before you did your update.

They point to sentry mode, app checking, and third party apps because those are the most common causes of excessive drain. In cold climates like yours, app checking is even worse, because every time the car is waken up, the battery has to be brought up to operating temps again. Another thing is the SOC may be temporarily lowered due to cold (and recover as battery warms up, as you found out yourself).

 

[teslin_zemljak]

Could the preconditioning be your main culprit? I don't think the people reporting 1 mile per day use any preconditioning (nor are they in cold climates). You can't necessarily blame standby, because to precondition, the car obviously is awake for longer than if it didn't need to precondition.


Are the losses when you are plugged in? The battery needs to be above 0C to charge (this is generally true of all lithium ion batteries). The update may just be a coincidence, given temps may have been warmer before you did your update.

They point to sentry mode, app checking, and third party apps because those are the most common causes of excessive drain. In cold climates like yours, app checking is even worse, because every time the car is waken up, the battery has to be brought up to operating temps again. Another thing is the SOC may be temporarily lowered due to cold (and recover as battery warms up, as you found out yourself).

No, I don't think so, because the precon is reported as separate cathegory (you can see that in the screenshot) and I also tried turning off the precon (scheduled departure) before to see if that makes diffence. When I did that the reported expenditure on preconditioning would be zero and I see only mobila app, stand by and sometimes screen time (not sure why is that happening either as I am not turning on the screen while car is parked and I don't access it with app).