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Kelly Blue Book Video, Los Angeles to Vegas

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There are those that staunchly defend the Top Gear episode as top rate journalism just like the NYT piece though.

I don't understand why they didn't charge at the service station either.

Same bad decision making that Broder made. He thought he had enough range, and so he left a working charger. I say bravo to him though because he learned his lesson by the time he made his trip back from Vegas, and did a Range Charge at the SuperCharger (something he neglected for his run into Vegas).

As a result he ends with a positive review by making the trip with a full battery and a huge margin, which let him play with the car. Broder would have put 50 miles into the car in a last ditch attempt to drive 150, after repeatedly failing to fully charge the car.
 
I think there's an undercurrent of dishonesty in this piece. The guy seems to repeatedly talk about how he barely had enough range to get to Barstow or to Vegas yet what he really should be saying is that he barely has enough range to get to Barstow after doing a bunch of short distance full throttle runs to impress the guys at the deli. Also, they were going pretty quickly on the way out there. Then, on the way back, he made a point to show that his remaining range was 25 miles but it was 50 to Barstow. From the screen you can see that his CURRENT projected was 25, not his average projected. He was going up the hill at the time.

In the end he was positive about the Model S but, as an owner, I'm really getting tired of these reviews that try to sensationalize the range anxiety "issue." It's really pretty simple: get enough charge, drive normally (i.e. no sprints in a parking lot to show off), and use cruise control at a reasonable speed. Do that and the trips are pretty uneventful.
 
It's really pretty simple: get enough charge.
Actually, I thought the report did a good job of putting the anxiety in context. The problem isn't the real range, it's that in non-standard conditions he had no idea if he was ok or not. How much extra was going uphill going to take? How much did downhill give him back?

Travelling flat on a freeway, range anxiety isn't such a big deal. But even the 30 mile average isn't helpful if the last 15 miles were flat and the next 15 miles are uphill.

I'm thinking of a trip to the Oregon coast and back, across mountain ranges, I've got some fairly serious anxiety trying to figure out if it's really possible or not since I just don't know the true energy use that sort of trip is going to require.
 
You shouldn't find yourself concerned about having the mileage to make it to your next charging location, make an unplanned stop to add charge at a "slow" charger, and then waste part of that hard earned charge giving 700 pounds of butcher an acceleration demonstration!

I had the impression that they had given these joy rides at another time, and that the joy ride was cut into the video when they were talking about slow charging just to jazz it up. Who were the butchers anyway? When did they get in and get out of the car? The narrative didn't flow clearly, in any case. After showing the joy ride, the video comments that they finished their slow charge. It didn't add up.
 
Interesting tidbit at the end: "We were told that topography-aware projected range software is already in the works." (or words to that effect)

Confirmed by Elon in the CC.

- - - Updated - - -

This report also had a feeling of angst in Vegas. Obvious he just drove there to drive there. Usually you would spend some time in that town, maybe overnight, so there would be less patience issues as the car would be full in the morning.
 
I don't think it was dishonest or sensationalized in the slightest and I don't think it's fair to look at these trips from an owners perspective.

To be clear: I love EVs, and everything mentioned below is solvable through either better software or more infrastructure. My point is that it isn't solved yet.

Being an owner is a lot different than being a reporter with a 24 hour loaner. It's choosing a lifestyle, likely for at least the next 5-10 years, and weighing all of the pros and cons before dropping $50k+... it's a completely different mindset. These guys probably get a 20 minute briefing from Tesla, and nothing is on their dime.

The reality is that the range information provided by the car right now is simply not intuitive. If the car tells you have you have 200 miles of range... you almost certainly don't. Instead you need to consider:
Elevation changes
Temperature
AC/Heat usage
Weight of passengers and luggage
Speed
Buffering
Etc...

That's a lot of mental math and a hell of a learning curve. On top of that, your next charge may often by a mystery: do they have 14-50 outlets? J1772... is it 30A or 50A? Is it already occupied? Is it even working at all? What am I going to do for 3 hours if it's slow? And that's all just one way: Will I be able to charge overnight? Am I staying long enough to get enough range to make it back? What's my backup plan?

"Then, on the way back, he made a point to show that his remaining range was 25 miles but it was 50 to Barstow. From the screen you can see that his CURRENT projected was 25, not his average projected. He was going up the hill at the time."

This illustrates the point exactly... the car is telling you that you can only go 25 miles when you need to go 50. How would that not cause anxiety to the uninitiated? It's not intuitive. (but will eventually be with software updates)

Because there's so much infrastructure none of the things listed above would even cross the mind of an ICE vehicle driver going from LA to Las Vegas. As a current ICE driver (until Sunday... yay!) I drive until my fuel light comes on, and I KNOW that I will easily find a gas station within the next 40 miles (which is as far as I've pushed my fuel light limits). If I'm doing a road trip? Fill up at the nearest station if I'm below 1/3 of a tank. No other considerations, and no matter what, the whole fillup process is going to use about 5 minutes of my time. Some day driving and EV will be just as convenient and care-free, but we're not there yet.

Personally, I think Tesla was fortunate with this driver. Had he not understood the effect elevation changes would have on range, the speed and heating usage would likely have ended in a trip on a flatbed. On the other hand had he didn't seem to understand just how much speed can effect range. (400wH/mile on his display at one point, using 230 miles to 150)
That might seem like a driver fail, but look at it from this perspective - Here's a car that does 0-60 in 4.4, drives like a dream, can pass as quickly as you can think to do so and is incredibly smooth and quiet and nearly any speed. Who wants to drive that at 55? As an owner I'll be able to drive the car the way I want to drive it nearly all of the time and will only need to limit myself during roadtrips. The reporters get one chance... I can't blame them for wanting to really drive.
 
It's really pretty simple: get enough charge, drive normally (i.e. no sprints in a parking lot to show off), and use cruise control at a reasonable speed. Do that and the trips are pretty uneventful.

But there is no way without a lot of experience to know what will happen to your range if you drive 70 MPH uphill in cold weather. Rated ranges says "200" but the true range isn't even close, from what I read. (No real experience.)

It is not like driving a gasoline car, where the cost of driving fast is just monetary: you have to fill up more often and your car wears out sooner.
 
I think there's an undercurrent of dishonesty in this piece. The guy seems to repeatedly talk about how he barely had enough range to get to Barstow or to Vegas yet what he really should be saying is that he barely has enough range to get to Barstow after doing a bunch of short distance full throttle runs to impress the guys at the deli. Also, they were going pretty quickly on the way out there. Then, on the way back, he made a point to show that his remaining range was 25 miles but it was 50 to Barstow. From the screen you can see that his CURRENT projected was 25, not his average projected. He was going up the hill at the time.

In the end he was positive about the Model S but, as an owner, I'm really getting tired of these reviews that try to sensationalize the range anxiety "issue." It's really pretty simple: get enough charge, drive normally (i.e. no sprints in a parking lot to show off), and use cruise control at a reasonable speed. Do that and the trips are pretty uneventful.

Agree, I have the 60W and was planning on going to Vegas but this video did make me nervous...
 
I don't think it was dishonest or sensationalized in the slightest and I don't think it's fair to look at these trips from an owners perspective.

To be clear: I love EVs, and everything mentioned below is solvable through either better software or more infrastructure. My point is that it isn't solved yet.

Being an owner is a lot different than being a reporter with a 24 hour loaner. It's choosing a lifestyle, likely for at least the next 5-10 years, and weighing all of the pros and cons before dropping $50k+... it's a completely different mindset. These guys probably get a 20 minute briefing from Tesla, and nothing is on their dime.

The reality is that the range information provided by the car right now is simply not intuitive. If the car tells you have you have 200 miles of range... you almost certainly don't. Instead you need to consider:
Elevation changes
Temperature
AC/Heat usage
Weight of passengers and luggage
Speed
Buffering
Etc...

That's a lot of mental math and a hell of a learning curve. On top of that, your next charge may often by a mystery: do they have 14-50 outlets? J1772... is it 30A or 50A? Is it already occupied? Is it even working at all? What am I going to do for 3 hours if it's slow? And that's all just one way: Will I be able to charge overnight? Am I staying long enough to get enough range to make it back? What's my backup plan?



This illustrates the point exactly... the car is telling you that you can only go 25 miles when you need to go 50. How would that not cause anxiety to the uninitiated? It's not intuitive. (but will eventually be with software updates)

Because there's so much infrastructure none of the things listed above would even cross the mind of an ICE vehicle driver going from LA to Las Vegas. As a current ICE driver (until Sunday... yay!) I drive until my fuel light comes on, and I KNOW that I will easily find a gas station within the next 40 miles (which is as far as I've pushed my fuel light limits). If I'm doing a road trip? Fill up at the nearest station if I'm below 1/3 of a tank. No other considerations, and no matter what, the whole fillup process is going to use about 5 minutes of my time. Some day driving and EV will be just as convenient and care-free, but we're not there yet.

Personally, I think Tesla was fortunate with this driver. Had he not understood the effect elevation changes would have on range, the speed and heating usage would likely have ended in a trip on a flatbed. On the other hand had he didn't seem to understand just how much speed can effect range. (400wH/mile on his display at one point, using 230 miles to 150)
That might seem like a driver fail, but look at it from this perspective - Here's a car that does 0-60 in 4.4, drives like a dream, can pass as quickly as you can think to do so and is incredibly smooth and quiet and nearly any speed. Who wants to drive that at 5V5? As an owner I'll be able to drive the car the way I want to drive it nearly all of the time and will only need to limit myself during roadtrips. The reporters get one chance... I can't blame them for wanting to really drive.

Agree and this is why Tesla is taking risks here. They may all be comfortable with all the head math but handing the fob to a newbie is going to be a crap shoot (Vegas!). There will be some who make it and some who don't and the ones who male it will certainly have a tinge of nervousness since the options seem limited (there are a few J1772s along this route too). And double agree on this:
Here's a car that does 0-60 in 4.4, drives like a dream, can pass as quickly as you can think to do so and is incredibly smooth and quiet and nearly any speed. Who wants to drive that at 55? ...The reporters get one chance... I can't blame them for wanting to really drive.[

Like putting food in from of a hungry dog and and saying no as you turn your back. It's just too much dangfun!

That's part of the risk and what we saw on Broder's logs.
 
Trip computers in ICEs are pretty inaccurate as well. I fill my TT up and it routinely says I have 700km+ of range but I rarely get over 500 just driving around town (lots of hills and start/stops).

To play it safe, I'll take half of the rated range as the "realistic" range.
 
Trip computers in ICEs are pretty inaccurate as well.....

The car can only predict on a basline of a known driving route. Anything that deviates from that is the driver's fault. :)

Musk says they have a new predictor coming out that will know the hills on the programmed drive. I wonder if Tesla will use the word "beta" when relasing things like that?
 
To play it safe, I'll take half of the rated range as the "realistic" range.
In my experience, that's overly conservative. @ChadS has gobs of experience with EV road-tripping, and his rule-of-thumb is to use 2/3 of the rated range -- if you want to have no range anxiety. That rule has worked well for me. My actual experience is that I'm able to get about 77% of rated range without much trying, but if I need to leave a buffer for unforeseen events (bad weather, detours, extreme traffic), the extra buffer is good. Come spring, I'm sure we'll all have a lot more available range.
 
I found it funny he having rangeanxiety while driving nearly 80! (for someone knowing a little bit about Ev's)

The links below to the posts of chad would have been usefull for him

Also to remind that there is Tesla's online range calculator:

Your Questions Answered | Tesla Motors

On the leg from Barstow to Vegas, he says he charged 200+ miles. Outside temp was in the thirties, and he was driving 73 mph at least at one point. Even the range calculator, without considering elevation changes, would have told him that was tight. Actually, it would have told him that wasn't enough, considering the increase from 65 mph to 73 mph (which the calculator itself doesn't allow).

Of course, the review was otherwise totally fun and enthusiastic, so why complain. ;) And I understand it adds *needed* suspense to a plain drive.

But having seen so many reviews with someone not charging enough, and/or going through first time learning experiences (where an actual owner would be more cautious, I assume), I feel like wanting to know more about what it is *really* like. ;)
 
This would be unprecedented but Tesla seems to own that space.

What if Tesla adopted the habit of regularly posting of test drive logs to their "Tesla Media Black Box page"?

Might go a long way towards educating the public on how to drive an EV and keep reviewers talking about experiences beyond range since the data will be posted anyway.
 
The reality is that the range information provided by the car right now is simply not intuitive. If the car tells you have you have 200 miles of range... you almost certainly don't. Instead you need to consider:
Elevation changes
Temperature
AC/Heat usage
Weight of passengers and luggage
Speed
Buffering
Etc...
I thought that's why there's two numbers instead of one. The rated range is there to give you an idea of how it would be in ideal situation and projected range tells you how far you can go if you kept driving the same way that you did in the last couple of miles. That should give you a decent idea of the actual range you can make and the rated range holds off any panic that may come from the fluctuations of the projected range.

The only thing missing, as mentioned, is something more predictive in terms of looking at the terrain that is coming up in your route (an update may be coming to change this).