Kevin Sharpe's decreased Roadster range

[thefortunes]

I have no way of answering that and I suspect every single car has a different charging/driving pattern.

Actually you do, if you just do what everyone is asking and disclose (or estimate) the total number of range charges you have done. I know EXACTLY how many I've done because it is an important item (kind of like how many miles you go between oil changes in an ICE). The PIA study includes information from every owner as to how often he/she range charges.

You really need to come to terms with the fact that my battery has always been faulty...

Actually I don't need to come to terms with anything and, again, as has been stated multiple times in this thread...just because you believe something does not make it fact.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Come now, Mr. Sharpe. Just because you can't provide the exact number of range charges (and deep discharges), doesn't mean you can't provide a meaningful answer to that question.

My guess is something like 30 times on my regular trip, and maybe 20 more times if you include the trips to events like Tesla To Geneva, WAVE, and LEJOG.

If by "deep discharges" you mean into the bottom 10% (where car stops calculating range) then I believe that is now 4 times in total. I believe the test I did a couple of nights ago was the deepest into this zone (4% SOC) because I've never been more than 5 miles from my destination when entering this zone. I have never run out of charge.

As I have said before, Tesla have never suggested that my charging/driving/storage history has had any impact on my battery degradation. Indeed, Tesla actively monitored my car during the LEJOG drive.

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Actually I don't need to come to terms with anything and, again, as has been stated multiple times in this thread...just because you believe something does not make it fact.

Do you accept that my battery was faulty when delivered in 2010?

 

[Krugerrand]

As I have said before, Tesla have never suggested that my charging/driving/storage history has had any impact on my battery degradation. Indeed, Tesla actively monitored my car during the LEJOG event.

And as I said before, no mfg/dealership/representative ever says a word about that, even if you're in for a repair and they know the repair is required specifically because you've abused your vehicle. It's not their job to babysit your vehicle usage and some would consider it rude for them to tell a customer that the way they use/drive their vehicle is abusive. The responsibility is all yours, so don't pawn it off on Tesla.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

The responsibility is all yours, so don't pawn it off on Tesla.

Do you accept that my battery was faulty when delivered in 2010?

 

[smorgasbord]

In any population half of all bricks, packs and any other measure will be below average.

Unless you drive in Lake Woebegon - then all your bricks will be above average.

 

[Lloyd]

I believe it has taken you longer to argue your point on this forum than charging the miles you have lost for the life of your car.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I believe it has taken you longer to argue your point on this forum than charging the miles you have lost for the life of your car.

Funny but not really relevant... do you accept that my battery was faulty when delivered in 2010?

View attachment 59441

 

[KJD]

This entire thread can be summed up as unrealistic expectations, by someone who really should know better.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

This entire thread can be summed up as unrealistic expectations, by someone who really should know better.

do you accept that my battery was faulty when delivered in 2010?

 

[Lloyd]

Not really, Your pack has a few percent less capacity than others comparable. 4% I believe from other's calculations. I don't personally believe that makes it faulty, but that is not my determination, or any other owner to make.

If your battery is truly defective, it will continue to degrade rapidly. When your range loss puts you out of the norm from other owners, then I believe your argument will be received and acted upon. Drive your car and see what happens. If you stabilize at your current range, enjoy it for what it gives you.

Degradation curves for these batteries has always been ~3% the first year, then 1% for every year following. YMMV !!! Charging to 100% and leaving it there will cost you in this curve. I don't believe it is just the number of range charges that is detrimental, but also the time that the battery sits at 100% SOC.

I personally don't charge to 100 % very often, and when I do, I time my charge so I can leave within 1/2 hour or so of the charge finishing!

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

but that is not my determination, or any other owner to make.

So, who decides what degradation is acceptable?

 

[qwk]

There are two factors which limit pack capacity: Differing brick capacity, and differing balance. You are observing that brick 29 is the limiting factor due to imbalance. Balance, of course, can easily be corrected.
It's reasonable to use the SOC delta as a proxy for inverse brick capacity. The brick with the greatest delta is the limiting factor, when perfectly balanced. The delta of brick 8 is 74.10, the next smallest delta is brick 98 of 70.24. If brick 8 were performing as well as brick 98 (or better), then the available pack capacity would be 74.1 / 70.24 = 5.5% more.

The pack imbalance is what everyone else here fails to account for. One bad brick will pull everything else down, and keep on pulling the pack down until it's unusable. That's what's puzzling about this case. Why would Tesla go through the trouble of pissing off a customer, when the pack will have to be at least worked on in the immediate future? Makes very little sense.

As for this entire debacle, it would have been better to drive the car like you stole it for a few months, which would expedite the inevitable demise, and get what you want, instead of a smear campaign that paints everyone in a bad light.

 

[thefortunes]

Not really, Your pack has a few percent less capacity than others comparable. 4% I believe from other's calculations. I don't personally believe that makes it faulty, but that is not my determination, or any other owner to make.

If your battery is truly defective, it will continue to degrade rapidly. When your range loss puts you out of the norm from other owners, then I believe your argument will be received and acted upon. Drive your car and see what happens. If you stabilize at your current range, enjoy it for what it gives you.

Degradation curves for these batteries has always been ~3% the first year, then 1% for every year following. YMMV !!! Charging to 100% and leaving it there will cost you in this curve. I don't believe it is just the number of range charges that is detrimental, but also the time that the battery sits at 100% SOC.

I personally don't charge to 100 % very often, and when I do, I time my charge so I can leave within 1/2 hour or so of the charge finishing!

+1

BTW, continually reposting charts doesn't make Kevin's assumptions fact either.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I don't believe it is just the number of range charges that is detrimental, but also the time that the battery sits at 100% SOC.

Agreed.

I personally don't charge to 100 % very often, and when I do, I time my charge so I can leave within 1/2 hour or so of the charge finishing!

For me it's closer to 5 minutes from a full range charge to driving (no reason to leave it longer with OVMS).

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it would have been better to drive the car like you stole it for a few months, which would expedite the inevitable demise, and get what you want

The problem with that strategy is I don't drive everyday because we can walk and cycle and prefer not to use a car unnecessarily.

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BTW, continually reposting charts doesn't make Kevin's assumptions fact either.

You didn't answer the question... do you believe my battery was defective when delivered?

 

[Lloyd]

So, who decides what degradation is acceptable?

I believe Tesla holds all the cards there!

 

[scaesare]

And you are not.

I have stayed out of this but as has been stated ad infinitum you are down ~ 19%, NOT the 30% that Tesla had provided in their guidance.

Did you expect your degradation to stay at zero until 100,000 miles and then fall off a cliff?

And for fun... year 4 out of 7 is 57% through the period. And 57% of the stated lower degradation figure fo 30% is: 17%.

That's pretty close to the loss he's experienced. While that may be one of the greater cases of loss, particulalrly given the # of miles driven, ... we also have evidence for a significant number of range charges during that same period.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I believe Tesla holds all the cards there!

Well, that's the fundamental problem and one that will need challenging in court I suspect.

 

[thefortunes]

You didn't answer the question... do you believe my battery was defective when delivered?

Actually I did answer the question.

 

[scaesare]

No, I expected my battery to be good on day one (it was not),

You are stating this as fact now. How was this confirmed?

 

[Lloyd]

Well, that's the fundamental problem and one that will need challenging in court I suspect.

That's kinda what I thought was happening here! The forum will make good practice for you! Not that I agree with that action.