Keystone Pipeline evaluation

[Robert.Boston]

An ambiguous report from State regarding the Keystone XL pipeline. Both sides appear to be claiming this is a victory, but my assessment is that the pro-pipeline side has more to like here. Particularly with both the House and Senate in play in this mid-term election year, it seems likely to me that the President will approve the pipeline to buy votes. Although he will lose support from the environmental community, he doesn't need to worry about them supporting the GOP.

 

[ggies07]

Yes and it's ridiculous. Read the book, Oil and Honey, and anyone who doesn't understand what's going on here because they just like EV's for the technology will get a reality check.

This dumbass (sorry, but true) just said this: Animated Boehner: 'There's nothing complex about the Keystone Pipeline!' - NBC Politics

You know why he doesn't think it's complex? Because the oil industry has given him over $800,000 in his career.

 

[ecarfan]

Whether Keystone is built or not built, either way all that Canadian tar sand oil is going to be extracted and refined and burned. Without the pipeline it will be moved by rail to willing buyers.

 

[ggies07]

Yes, but at least the United States will have taken a stand on no more oil extracting. Where is his promise of looking out for our future generations......From this article 350.org With New Pipeline Review Expected, President Obama Has All He Needs to Reject Keystone XL

In the past, industry contractors have argued that while tar sands are bad for the climate, but argued that it’s ok to approve Keystone XL because expanding rail capacity will allow for expanded tar sands development anyway. That’s like saying because drugs are coming across the border by truck it’s ok to build a conveyor belt to make it easier.

We should make it harder than ever to get this stuff passing in our cities and land. The President should block it and look for sustainable energy sources to promote.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Whether Keystone is built or not built, either way all that Canadian tar sand oil is going to be extracted and refined and burned. Without the pipeline it will be moved by rail to willing buyers.

Maybe. The pipeline is cheaper than rail, so it makes more of the tar sands economic.

Example: suppose the only way to move tar sands bitumen out was in wheelbarrows. It would be too expensive, so none would be used.
What if you had to truck it out? Better but still expensive; maybe some of the easiest fields are tapped.

If the tar sands oil was really cheap to collect and process, the mode of transport out wouldn't matter. But the reverse is true: these are some of the most costly fields in production. Lowering the transportation cost is likely to increase the rate and thoroughness with which it is exploited.

 

[ggies07]

Another great and quick article to read: Debunking 5 Keystone pipeline myths

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Obama will just whip out the Keystone chip at the end of budget negotiations when it gets real tight and he needs five more votes. Chevron makes a few phone calls, Obama gets his five votes and the Canadian tar sands get torn up and melted a bit more quickly than one would like. Hopefully the bill is good enough that it's a net positive in the end.

 

[ggies07]

A great interview with Bill (author of Oil and Honey) who is heading the campaign against the Keystone:

Bill McKibben to Obama: Say No to Big Oil on Vimeo

 

[ggies07]

 

[dhrivnak]

I think the way to stop the pipeline is to stop buying gasoline. If everyone protesting went out and purchased an EV demand from the oil will drop and the pipeline will not be built. I know I am preaching to the choir here. But if we keep buying gas then it will be built, or worse transported via truck or rail.

 

[ggies07]

I want to share this with everyone:

ERM, one of the main contractors behind the State Department’s report, is a dues paying member of the American Petroleum Institute, big oil’s main lobbying group, and counts TransCanada as one of their clients. This is like the fox guarding the henhouse, only it’s our climate that needs defending.

-Source is from 350.org

Please tell our President you do not want the pipeline built by going here: Final Keystone XL Comment Period - 350


I have already signed it.

 

[NigelM]

Here's what I don't understand (my Canadian friends look away now please):

• Prime Minister Stephen Harper is all for the pipeline.
• If it's going to create lots of jobs, why don't the Canadians want to keep it in Canada?
• If there's no environmental issues why not build an East-West pipeline across Canada one way or the other?

Actually I did ask a couple of my friends in Canada about the pipeline and their replies could be summed up as "No way, we don't want it....". So if the folks producing the oil don't want the pipeline why would we want it across the U.S.?

 

[agileone]

Whether Keystone is built or not built, either way all that Canadian tar sand oil is going to be extracted and refined and burned. Without the pipeline it will be moved by rail to willing buyers.

Yes, the alternative is not without consequences : Lives lost: Remembering Lac-Mégantic’s victims
The petrol was coming from Dakota and much more inflammable than expected by the " standard " procedures.

Work on the demand side, not the supply side, i.e sell more Teslas ...

 

[Doug_G]

• If there's no environmental issues why not build an East-West pipeline across Canada one way or the other?

They're building one of those, too.

 

[slipdrive]

The crude will combust to CO and CO2, from climate change perspective, doesn't matter where. Does it make sense to float it on the fragile oceans thousands of miles; rail it through American towns; or truck it on icy roads in winter ? Could American refineries have more emission controls and treat their employees better than a refinery in Bangkok, and do those refinery workers buy bread, houses and send their kids to local schools ? As far as we know, Canada doesn't behead the accused nor sponsor terrorist training camps. Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem of climate change....like promoting EVs and reducing all of our energy use (@agileone, agree demand side!).

 

[ElSupreme]

If it's going to create lots of jobs, why don't the Canadians want to keep it in Canada?

Meh. Jobs is just a empty justification, and very manipulative. Trucking the oil will produce so much more employment. Pipeline = cheaper = less labor!

As an engineer a pipeline is a pretty cheap, safe, and effective way to move the stuff. The real problem is that oil is going to get tapped whether or not the pipeline goes in. They really need to consider what is the best/safest way to ship it. Probably train (not without problems), or pipeline.

 

[slipdrive]

100 yearsDeja Vu. The Mobil pipelines run right by the Tesla supercharger at Tejon.

Following the days of Fort Tejon , one of the greatest influences on the growth of the Frazier Mountain area was the installation of oil and natural gas pipelines that were run through the mountain passes. The purpose of these lines was to carry those valuable products from the flourishing oil fields around Taft , California . Prior to the pipelines the oil and natural gas had to be transported by wagon or trucks to the railroad in Bakersfield , or along crude dirt mountain roads to the harbor in Los Angeles .

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Meh. Jobs is just a empty justification, and very manipulative. Trucking the oil will produce so much more employment. Pipeline = cheaper = less labor!

As an engineer a pipeline is a pretty cheap, safe, and effective way to move the stuff. The real problem is that oil is going to get tapped whether or not the pipeline goes in. They really need to consider what is the best/safest way to ship it. Probably train (not without problems), or pipeline.

 

[ggies07]

So this happened today. Very proud of my generation and younger.

From the album: Timeline Photos

By XL Dissent
Today, 450 youth risked arrest at the White House to stop Keystone XL.

This is what youth power looks like. This is what the movement to end dirty energy and the Keystone XL pipeline looks like. This is what democracy looks like.

Click LIKE to thank the youth who dared to think big, and make XL Dissent a huge success.

 

[slipdrive]

This is a great country, that we have the right and privilege to do such things without fear.

 

[Canuck]

Actually I did ask a couple of my friends in Canada about the pipeline and their replies could be summed up as "No way, we don't want it....". So if the folks producing the oil don't want the pipeline why would we want it across the U.S.?

Most people in Canada don't want this pipeline. The problem we have federally is that we have 3 major parties (1) The New Democratic Party "NDP" (Socialist - never been in government); (2) The Liberals (ran Canada for most of the past 50 years); and (3) the Conservatives, who recently got a majority government DUE SOLELY TO a split in the liberal votes between NDP (significant increase in votes in the last federal election) and the Liberals.

So, even though Canada is much more "Democrat" than "Republican" than you folks in the States, we have a conservative government while you have the Democrats (Liberals) in office.

With regard to Keystone, in my opinion, as I have said before but it applies here: we are circling the drain as a species. Keystone will slightly accelerate the momentum of the drainage.