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Kia EV6 GT

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
307
107
jacksonville fl
What is the KIA experience? I'm in Canada, so can offer a Canadian experience.
it is a very low end experience in the dealership,
"what can we do to get you in this car today"
the old 4 square hustle
kia dealerships are just a low end experience.
that kia/toyota/hyndai/nissan thing is why toyota created lexus, nissan created infiniti, hyndai tried to break off their genesis brand but pulled it back.
high end car buyers don't want the balloons free hot dogs.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,729
8,544
Riverside Co. CA
it is a very low end experience in the dealership,
"what can we do to get you in this car today"
the old 4 square hustle
kia dealerships are just a low end experience.
that kia/toyota/hyndai/nissan thing is why toyota created lexus, nissan created infiniti, hyndai tried to break off their genesis brand but pulled it back.
high end car buyers don't want the balloons free hot dogs.

I am not a fanboi(TM) even though I am a moderator here at TMC. You could look at my posting history to see I am critical of tesla in many places. I agree with you about the kia dealership experience, I said as much in this thread. The kia / hyundai car OWNERSHIP experience I had, though, was really good. I had a kia sorrento SUV I drove for 12 years and 160k miles, with the only repair other than general oil changes and battery replacements/ and tires being a CV boot.

My daughters elantra I bought her brand new in 2015 has like 90k miles on it, and no major repairs. Both cars were nice. well put together, low maintenance, etc.

With that being said, I am just as "brand centric" as a typical american buyer, and the dealership experience is going to need to be much better for kia to sell 50-60k cars. That part I agree with. The entire dealership model is the problem, though, in my opinion. BMW / Lexus / Audi dealers tend to treat you better, but they still are trying to pay for all that real estate the manufacturer is making them buy.

No established dealer really likes the idea of EVs because they dont make much money off the new vehicle sales. They make it off maintenance, or service plans they scare people into thinking they need to cover all that maintenance.

I like the idea of this car, and if I was in the market I would take a look at it. My wife doesnt like the look of the model Y but when I showed her a picture of this, she said "oh, thats pretty nice!" We would need to get past her giving up her BMW X3 M40 for it (badge mostly) but at least she will look at it.

She wont consider the model Y or any "bubble car" like BMW X4 / X6 etc.

I am just happy that manufacturers other than Tesla are getting away from making all EVs look like "econo crapboxes".
 

mark95476

Member
Jun 21, 2020
897
474
Bay Area CA
The dealership will go away. Buying an Audi with the Costco car buyers program still took hours.

I am not a fanboi(TM) even though I am a moderator here at TMC. You could look at my posting history to see I am critical of tesla in many places. I agree with you about the kia dealership experience, I said as much in this thread. The kia / hyundai car OWNERSHIP experience I had, though, was really good. I had a kia sorrento SUV I drove for 12 years and 160k miles, with the only repair other than general oil changes and battery replacements/ and tires being a CV boot.

My daughters elantra I bought her brand new in 2015 has like 90k miles on it, and no major repairs. Both cars were nice. well put together, low maintenance, etc.

With that being said, I am just as "brand centric" as a typical american buyer, and the dealership experience is going to need to be much better for kia to sell 50-60k cars. That part I agree with. The entire dealership model is the problem, though, in my opinion. BMW / Lexus / Audi dealers tend to treat you better, but they still are trying to pay for all that real estate the manufacturer is making them buy.

No established dealer really likes the idea of EVs because they dont make much money off the new vehicle sales. They make it off maintenance, or service plans they scare people into thinking they need to cover all that maintenance.
 

mark95476

Member
Jun 21, 2020
897
474
Bay Area CA
Yeah, the guy with the Taycan being confused about 800V charging. :rolleyes:

where is 800v charging available? the porsche taycan is capable of 800v charging and there are almost no 800v chargers available in the entire world.
The entire Electrify America network is 800V capable. There are limited stalls per site (usually two) that are 350kW though. The rest of the stalls are 150kW, but still 800V capable.
Also, to answer your question, looks like there are quite a few:

 

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
307
107
jacksonville fl
Don't forget EV6's sister cars - Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Genesis GV60.

So if you want a slightly more "premium" experience, maybe pay a bit more for the Genesis.
hyundai pulled back on their plans to make the genesis a stand alone product like the lexus so the cars are sold via hyundai dealerships and the "great" experience found in dealerships like that.
 

skiwhmts

Member
Feb 12, 2021
32
20
New England
Anyone who is a car person knows the Koreans have been coming up strong the last few years. Their products and drive to succeed is second to none. This will be serious competition to all European and American companies (Tesla included). I think the EV6 puts them right in the mix as they tend to load up their cars with features and and their software works. I think weaker companies in the car field will be the big losers as the transition to EV's takes hold.
 

mark95476

Member
Jun 21, 2020
897
474
Bay Area CA
The price points and designs (subjective) are very attractive. The thing that has me a bit perplexed is that they're coming out with the lower-end models first and volumes seem a bit limited. I think VW and Ford have been doing the same so maybe there's something limiting OEMs industry-wide, except for Tesla. Tesla has generally delivered the higher $ Performance variants first.

It's ridiculous that the Japanese OEMs, even Nissan who came out with the Leaf years ago, have been caught so flat-footed with EVs. I have high regard for Honda and Toyota's quality and service. Hopefully they catch-up.

Anyone who is a car person knows the Koreans have been coming up strong the last few years. Their products and drive to succeed is second to none. This will be serious competition to all European and American companies (Tesla included). I think the EV6 puts them right in the mix as they tend to load up their cars with features and and their software works. I think weaker companies in the car field will be the big losers as the transition to EV's takes hold.
 

Ocelot

Member
Jul 2, 2012
859
940
Canada
the whole kia experience is the problem
We own a soul ev. Had it since 2016. It has needed repair once. Our model x, owned for one year...albeit purchased used, and we have had roughly 6 service appointments maybe seven. Like driving both, but Kia has been great.
 

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
307
107
jacksonville fl
We own a soul ev. Had it since 2016. It has needed repair once. Our model x, owned for one year...albeit purchased used, and we have had roughly 6 service appointments maybe seven. Like driving both, but Kia has been great.
did you enjoy the circus like purchasing experience? that is what I was mostly referring to
 

PaulSu

Member
Sep 11, 2019
45
82
Guelph, Ontario
did you enjoy the circus like purchasing experience? that is what I was mostly referring to
Every dealership I've bought a car from is a "circus like experience." However, I learnt a long time ago a trick that makes the experience so much better. In Canada, there is a service I use that gives dealer cost pricing on almost every manufacture. They will also tell you the dealer that "participates" in this program. If you go armed with the correct information, it's a much smoother experience. The last car I bought for a family member was done 100% over email without ever going into a dealership. You can't buy a Tesla this way, but it makes life so much simpler for legacy automakers.

On my last non-Tesla car purchase, we test drove between 8-10 cars, all from different manufacturers. When we narrowed down our choice, we negotiated over email, only ever stepping foot into the dealership to officially sign the papers and pick up the car.

Knowledge is king when dealing with car dealerships. Once you have the actual numbers, you have won the battle.

I have a long history with KIA, and this worked each and every time.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,241
13,177
NoVA
800V charging: this is all about reducing current by increasing voltage for the same power delivery. This makes components and wire sizes more manageable. This makes building chargers easier, but has almost nothing to do with how fast cells can charge.

Packs built from individual 4.2v (max) cells are often arranges in a series of 96 groups for 400v packs. Just make that 192 smaller groups of cells and you have a 800V packs. Or with a couple of contactors, rearrange the groups to switch between the two, as apparently this car can.

All of which makes no difference to the individual cell... it sees a voltage within it's 3-4.2v range. What matters to the pack is power delivery. A 75kWh pack receiving 75kW of power (i.e. "1C"), would ideally charge in 1hr (although charge curves near full extend this some). Empty batteries can withstand greater power delivery than full ones, hence the curve.

To achieve 70% additional charge in 18 minutes is only a ~2C on average rate for that time. It would likely be closer to ~3C at the start and 1C or under at the top. Certainly doable with the appropriate thermal management, and 800V wouldn't even be necessary, provided the higher-power 400V chargers were around... but they tend to top out at around 150lW except for Tesla, which have 250kW chargers.
 
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mark95476

Member
Jun 21, 2020
897
474
Bay Area CA
I watched the Mustang video that's circulating around and plugging-in is a two-handed job at Electrified America. :confused:

I haven't actually used a Gen 3 250kW Supercharger, but the cables are supposed to be thinner being water-cooled. I've never had a problem with Gen 2/ 150kW or urban Superchargers.

800V charging: this is all about reducing current by increasing voltage for the same power delivery. This makes components and wire sizes more manageable. This makes building chargers easier, but has almost nothing to do with how fast cells can charge.

Packs built from individual 4.2v (max) cells are often arranges in a series of 96 groups for 400v packs. Just make that 192 smaller groups of cells and you have a 800V packs. Or with a couple of contactors, rearrange the groups to switch between the two, as apparently this car can.

All of which makes no difference to the individual cell... it sees a voltage within it's 3-4.2v range. What matters to the pack is power delivery. A 75kWh pack receiving 75kW of power (i.e. "1C"), would ideally charge in 1hr (although charge curves near full extend this some). Empty batteries can withstand greater power delivery than full ones, hence the curve.

To achieve 70% additional charge in 18 minutes is only a ~2C on average rate for that time. It would likely be closer to ~3C at the start and 1C or under at the top. Certainly doable with the appropriate thermal management, and 800V wouldn't even be necessary, provided the higher-power 400V chargers were around... but they tend to top out at around 150lW except for Tesla, which have 250kW chargers.
 

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
307
107
jacksonville fl
I watched the Mustang video that's circulating around and plugging-in is a two-handed job at Electrified America. :confused:

I haven't actually used a Gen 3 250kW Supercharger, but the cables are supposed to be thinner being water-cooled. I've never had a problem with Gen 2/ 150kW or urban Superchargers.
a problem with many EA cables is that they are too short and can be hard to reach the charge port on the car
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,241
13,177
NoVA
I watched the Mustang video that's circulating around and plugging-in is a two-handed job at Electrified America. :confused:

I haven't actually used a Gen 3 250kW Supercharger, but the cables are supposed to be thinner being water-cooled. I've never had a problem with Gen 2/ 150kW or urban Superchargers.
Yeah, saw that too...hence my comment of making the cables "more" managable... :rolleyes:
 
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