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Kicked out of the FSD Beta! (Long Post)

Hi everyone, apologies for the long post, but I feel like my M3 investment deserves this airing! I’m not a super-frequent visitor here, but have read many threads over the 2.5 years I’ve had my beloved Dual Motor Model 3. I’m posting today to explain how I was unceremoniously booted from the FSD beta program last week. But before I get into that, a little background.

First and foremost: I love my M3. It has changed my life. I previously had a Subaru Forrester. I’m a consultant and drive about 1-2 hours per day, going to various client sites. For a couple years leading up to the M3 purchase, my body, and particularly my back, would be *hurting* after longer drives in the Forrester. I was honestly asking myself how I was going to keep going with my career, with the aches and pains that driving was causing me. Then I looked into a Model 3. And the rest is history.

I use autopilot 90% of the time I’m in the car. Always paying attention, of course, but able to rest my body. No feet pressing the pedals. No hands clutching the wheel. It’s astounding what a toll that takes on the (50-year-old) body, day in and day out. I can drive 2 hours in the M3 and not feel like I was in the car at all. That's life changing!

Now, first of all, I’m no Elon/Tesla complainer/hater. I love the car so much, tech warts and all. Auto-wipers suck—don’t care. Road noise is significant—don’t care. Unresolved trim issues at purchase—don’t care. The car is just amazing. Best purchase I have ever made, without question. Second: I pay attention when I drive, and know how the Model 3 works. I have logged about 45,000 miles on autopilot. I know how to pay attention, and I know when and how to prove that to the M3.

Now for the sad part. The FSD beta was simply yanked from my car last week, with no email notice, and little to no in-car warning. If something was presented on the screen, it was small, looked like any other message, and, ironically, it must have been showing when I was driving and paying attention to the road!

I got the FSD beta a few weeks ago after a painstaking 30 days of getting a 99 safety score, despite driving in really difficult areas of Boston and the suburbs. All sorts of people hard breaking in front of me, cutting me off, etc. But I was careful, as I always am, and maintained a 99 for a month which was no small feat. I got the FSD beta and was really psyched. Unlike some of you, I didn’t read a ton about it ahead of time. No time for that with 3 younger kids and a demanding job, all seriously affected by the pandemic. So I didn’t fully understand many things about FSD except for the fact that 1) I paid many thousands of dollars for it. 2) I’ve waited two and a half years for it. And 3) it doesn’t work very well so you have to be very careful.

I used FSD the day it downloaded and was struck by how bad it was on city streets. I was really surprised. It was exciting to see it trying to do things it couldn't do before, but I stopped using it. I pretty much only double-tap the gear stalk on major roads, and after that first bad experience, didn’t try it again for a week or so on city streets. The next time I tried it, in hindsight, I noticed extensive nags about paying attention. I was confused because I *was* paying attention. But I guess I did change audio sources, change A/C temps., etc. This is par for the course with standard AP and I never had an issue.

Then last week, I was on a back road. No one around me. I was changing the radio stations during a morning commute and then I had to change my navigation destination. I simply clicked on navigation and switched destinations to one of my preset favorites. AP freaked out and disengaged. And then I saw the message. I was booted from the beta.

Kicked-Out.jpeg


Then ensued tons of reading. I discovered that I was doing it wrong. I should have turned off FSD during my normal commutes and ONLY used it when I wanted to “test” it and pay 100% full attention to the road without even changing the radio station. But I didn’t know. And now after 2.5 years, thousands of dollars, 45,000 miles of safe AP driving, and 30 days of excruciatingly safe Safety-Score driving, I’ve lost what I only had for a few drives, and may never get it back. Man, that SUCKS!

Now a couple of questions for those of you more in the know than me.

1) Does anyone know if I will get FSD beta access back? When?
2) If I email Tesla and officially back out of the beta, will I get my old less-nagging AP back?
3) Can I then re-apply for the beta and go through another safety score test and get FSD back?

So frustrating not knowing the answers to these questions. Of course I called Tesla and the guy on the phone was useless. I do have service scheduled next week and will ask, but I’m pretty sure they won’t know anything either.

For those of you with FSD beta access right now, be careful, and learn from my mistakes!
 

kabin

Member
Nov 23, 2021
138
117
Southwest
I hope you get it back. Your time in the seat should provide valuable input for beta feedback.

Something similar happened on a recent youtube video. Maybe it was coincidence but he entered 2 navigation changes and a little while later was removed from the beta program. Tesla has a lot riding on FSD and wants to avoid having the rug pulled out from under them.
 
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impastu

Woody
Supporting Member
Oct 24, 2020
1,111
3,665
Rye, New York
I hope you get it back. Your time in the seat should provide valuable input for beta feedback.

Something similar happened on a recent youtube video. Maybe it was coincidence but he entered 2 navigation changes and a little while later was removed from the beta program. Tesla has a lot riding on FSD and wants to avoid having the rug pulled out from under them.
Sounds like a bug in the "two strikes" logic. Send an email the FSD beta mailbox.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,116
9,207
Visalia, CA
1) Does anyone know if I will get FSD beta access back? When?
We got the same info as you do.
2) If I email Tesla and officially back out of the beta, will I get my old less-nagging AP back?
We read the same words as you do:

"Full Self-Driving feature suspended based on your recent driving data. Feature will be restored with an upcoming software release"

3) Can I then re-apply for the beta and go through another safety score test and get FSD back?
It's not in the FAQ but I assume there should be a process for expelled drivers to get the FSD beta back.
So frustrating not knowing the answers to these questions.
Welcome to Tesla culture!
...Of course I called Tesla and the guy on the phone was useless...
Unless it's a public policy that we can read on the web or an internal policy that the staff can read, they are just as knowledgeable as you are.


That said, let's put this thread into some perspectives.

First of all, losing FSD beta is surely a big and important loss for you.

However, on the bright side, you still have the current public FSD version that has served you very well for the past 2.5 years without being in the state of a nervous wreck due to FSD beta warnings and suspension. That means even now, after losing your FSD beta, you can still function in such a relaxed state like the past 2.5 years.

I guess you are a born beta tester so being relaxed might not be suitable for you so you might want your FSD beta back for additional punishment from the nanny system.

In that case, let's read Tesla's rule again:

"Full Self-Driving feature suspended based on your recent driving data. Feature will be restored with an upcoming software release"

Some would understand that as: You will get back to your public FSD on a future date.

Could be but notice the word "suspended" and not "revoked". That sounds temporary and not permanent.

Notice the word "restored" so that confirms that it's not permanent.

Notice the word "upcoming software release" which again means you'll get it back.

Notice that all these words are under the menu: "Full Self-Driving (beta)". So the "feature" and all of the conditions are about the "Full Self-Driving (beta)" and not about the public FSD feature that you've enjoyed for the past 2.5 years.

Cheer up. It's not the end of the world!
 

dansev

Member
Jan 28, 2020
30
44
Boston
Well, with FSD Beta disabled, doesn't that leave you back with highway autopilot like you had before getting the Beta?
Yes, but I was really looking forward to testing this out. I'm a technology consultant. I love this stuff, and appreciate it. If I had ANY idea that I was in danger of losing this software, I would have turned it off ALL the time except when I really wanted to 100% concentrate on the testing. I knew you had to be careful when using it--VERY careful. I was. But I now understand that very careful wasn't enough. It's really several steps beyond that. And now, after reading a ton of information about it, I get it. It really doesn't work well, at all, so you can't look at it as "driving carefully", you have to look at it as "I'm testing faulty software that could easily kill someone." It really seems like alpha software in that respect, not beta. Anyway, I would have really liked to test it out more, and I'm very confident I would have done it correctly now that I completely understand it. Too bad they didn't just send me that email we all heard about, but doesn't seem to exist--at least I never got it, despite lots of other emails from Tesla.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,036
7,296
Snohomish, WA
It's understandably frustrating because you had to go through a series of ridiculous steps to pass a Beta Safety Scoring system just to test extremely beta SW only to get kicked out because of a beta driver monitoring system.

To make matters worse at the rate the FSD Beta is going it could be well over a year before you'll get to try it again.

There is an upside to it. The FSD Beta is really bad, and pure vision is a mess.

So you have saved yourself a lot of grief by getting kicked out, and going back to Vision+Radar.

I'm going to use your experience as a reminder to change my settings so I have FSD Beta enabled in another profile as most of the time I don't bother with the Beta because it has issues. The latest fun thing is its turning the turn signal on briefly while going straight threw an intersection. It's done it on multiple intersections which is bizarre. In past versions it mostly only did that on tight corners.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,116
9,207
Visalia, CA
...It really seems like alpha software...

No kidding! Didn't you get the report that during the filming of the FSD promotional video, it hit a barrier?


That despite three-dimensional map before filming and Tesla consumers got none!
 
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a.deodatus

Member
Jul 20, 2021
87
57
Lone Tree
I suppose on the bright side, they can’t take away the FSD features that come with the basic features, and as you say the additional features are done quite badly by the computer. I myself won’t bother trying to worry about my 75 safety score and simply sit back and enjoy the ease of use that my subscription to FSD already provides me 😂
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,593
33,643
Seattle, WA
No kidding! Didn't you get the report that during the filming of the FSD promotional video, it hit a barrier?


That despite three-dimensional map before filming and Tesla consumers got none!
In 2018/19 ?
 

dansev

Member
Jan 28, 2020
30
44
Boston
Here is hoping the key part is "Feature will be restored with an upcoming software release". What FSD Beta version do you have? Sounds like 10.6 is starting to roll out, so maybe you will not be suspended very long.
I have 10.5. I started on 10.4.
So you have saved yourself a lot of grief by getting kicked out, and going back to Vision+Radar.
Unfortunately, no. While the beta on/off switch is greyed out and off, as an extra slap in the face, I’m stuck in the beta program, with all the extra nags vs the pre-safety score days (pre vision-only?)! All of the downsides with none of the upside. I emailed the fsd address and asked what happens if I officially have them take me out of the program. Crickets. No response after the AutoReply that everyone gets sending a message there. Argh!
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,116
9,207
Visalia, CA
In 2018/19 ?
No. Old news. The promotional video was from 2016 but it gives us an insight into how the Tesla system is still in its very preliminary phase at the present.

Waymo uses LIDAR but it knows the importance of pre-mapping. GM does not use LIDAR but it knows the importance of pre-mapping and it's been using it.

Tesla knew the importance of pre-mapping and actually did it for the 2016 video, but there's no plan for pre-mapping for consumers.

2016 video takes us to where we are today, radarless, after the denial for the work with in-house Tesla radar, denial for the request for LIDAR from the team...

(Paywall)
 

GlmnAlyAirCar

Active Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,696
1,631
Sanatoga PA
I discovered that I was doing it wrong. I should have turned off FSD during my normal commutes and ONLY used it when I wanted to “test” it and pay 100% full attention to the road without even changing the radio station. But I didn’t know.
No, you're not doing it wrong. I have FSD beta enabled all the time and I do all of my driving using it. I pay no more and no less attention to the road than I do while driving normally. Something is definitely wrong with you getting booted. All I can do is recommend contacting the fsdbeta team via email. I don't have a lot of confidence that they will reply, but it's worth a shot.

Unfortunately, you don't have any recourse if they choose not to restore it. You didn't pay $x-thousand for FSD beta limited release. You paid for general release. So they owe you nothing at this point.
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,593
33,643
Seattle, WA
The next time I tried it, in hindsight, I noticed extensive nags about paying attention. I was confused because I *was* paying attention. But I guess I did change audio sources, change A/C temps., etc. This is par for the course with standard AP and I never had an issue.
Were these nags for "hands on the wheel" requiring you to tug the wheel ?

Looks like FSD lets you look away for upto 7 seconds at a time. Unless you took that long to change audio/temp, you shouldn't have issues.
 

dansev

Member
Jan 28, 2020
30
44
Boston
So a quick update on this. I have been stuck at 10.5 since this happened. I have sent about 5 emails to [email protected] and spoken with the service center several times. No one responds to the email and the service center is far less informed than I am on this issue, or they are playing dumb. It numbingly frustrating. My biggest fear is that I'm in some purgatory that will leave me without any further updates for a very long time. I don't seen to have a way of opting out as my emails all go unanswered and there is no way to do it form the car or the app (at least as far as I can see.). What a mess! Here's to hoping I get 10.8, and my FSD beta access is restored!
 

okcazure

Member
May 4, 2019
76
66
Dayton,OH
So a quick update on this. I have been stuck at 10.5 since this happened. I have sent about 5 emails to [email protected] and spoken with the service center several times. No one responds to the email and the service center is far less informed than I am on this issue, or they are playing dumb. It numbingly frustrating. My biggest fear is that I'm in some purgatory that will leave me without any further updates for a very long time. I don't seen to have a way of opting out as my emails all go unanswered and there is no way to do it form the car or the app (at least as far as I can see.). What a mess! Here's to hoping I get 10.8, and my FSD beta access is restored!
I had no "nag" issues with 10.3, 10.3.1, and 10.4. With 10.5 I often had issues, always getting the red message about paying attention. I never (knock on wood) got a strike. With 10.6.1 I don't get the "nags" anymore without a change on my part so I believe something was fixed. But as far as getting off 10.5, I suspect you'll soon get 2021.44.25 (The standard Holiday update) or the Beta 10.8 with Holiday update (maybe this is 2021.44.5.5??). Good luck getting Beta back. I know I would miss it.
 

Oldguywaits

OD7/18 LR5 FSD Wh/Bl | 19 | PA I Delivered 10/30!!
Aug 28, 2021
212
447
PA
So a quick update on this. I have been stuck at 10.5 since this happened. I have sent about 5 emails to [email protected] and spoken with the service center several times. No one responds to the email and the service center is far less informed than I am on this issue, or they are playing dumb. It numbingly frustrating. My biggest fear is that I'm in some purgatory that will leave me without any further updates for a very long time. I don't seen to have a way of opting out as my emails all go unanswered and there is no way to do it form the car or the app (at least as far as I can see.). What a mess! Here's to hoping I get 10.8, and my FSD beta access is restored!
I don’t have the FSD yet but I am wondering whether the cross talk your vehicle system had with the central systems detected some issues which required halting the continued use of FSD. So along with the next software update the central systems should push the corrective updates so that FSD could be safely employed on your system. Each vehicle or groups of vehicles could have some bugs that’s detected by the feedback received. Your vehicle may have sent some bug codes that was flagged as dangerous to continue FSD. The error code obviously doesn’t reflect that and says it’s your dubious driving skills but I have a feeling it’s the machines talking with the center that causes this. Unless many others have the same bug or issue the tech support team may not have the awareness to answer you. So only option is to wait till next software update
 
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