Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Kicked out of the FSD Beta! (Long Post)

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Hi everyone, apologies for the long post, but I feel like my M3 investment deserves this airing! I’m not a super-frequent visitor here, but have read many threads over the 2.5 years I’ve had my beloved Dual Motor Model 3. I’m posting today to explain how I was unceremoniously booted from the FSD beta program last week. But before I get into that, a little background.

First and foremost: I love my M3. It has changed my life. I previously had a Subaru Forrester. I’m a consultant and drive about 1-2 hours per day, going to various client sites. For a couple years leading up to the M3 purchase, my body, and particularly my back, would be *hurting* after longer drives in the Forrester. I was honestly asking myself how I was going to keep going with my career, with the aches and pains that driving was causing me. Then I looked into a Model 3. And the rest is history.

I use autopilot 90% of the time I’m in the car. Always paying attention, of course, but able to rest my body. No feet pressing the pedals. No hands clutching the wheel. It’s astounding what a toll that takes on the (50-year-old) body, day in and day out. I can drive 2 hours in the M3 and not feel like I was in the car at all. That's life changing!

Now, first of all, I’m no Elon/Tesla complainer/hater. I love the car so much, tech warts and all. Auto-wipers suck—don’t care. Road noise is significant—don’t care. Unresolved trim issues at purchase—don’t care. The car is just amazing. Best purchase I have ever made, without question. Second: I pay attention when I drive, and know how the Model 3 works. I have logged about 45,000 miles on autopilot. I know how to pay attention, and I know when and how to prove that to the M3.

Now for the sad part. The FSD beta was simply yanked from my car last week, with no email notice, and little to no in-car warning. If something was presented on the screen, it was small, looked like any other message, and, ironically, it must have been showing when I was driving and paying attention to the road!

I got the FSD beta a few weeks ago after a painstaking 30 days of getting a 99 safety score, despite driving in really difficult areas of Boston and the suburbs. All sorts of people hard breaking in front of me, cutting me off, etc. But I was careful, as I always am, and maintained a 99 for a month which was no small feat. I got the FSD beta and was really psyched. Unlike some of you, I didn’t read a ton about it ahead of time. No time for that with 3 younger kids and a demanding job, all seriously affected by the pandemic. So I didn’t fully understand many things about FSD except for the fact that 1) I paid many thousands of dollars for it. 2) I’ve waited two and a half years for it. And 3) it doesn’t work very well so you have to be very careful.

I used FSD the day it downloaded and was struck by how bad it was on city streets. I was really surprised. It was exciting to see it trying to do things it couldn't do before, but I stopped using it. I pretty much only double-tap the gear stalk on major roads, and after that first bad experience, didn’t try it again for a week or so on city streets. The next time I tried it, in hindsight, I noticed extensive nags about paying attention. I was confused because I *was* paying attention. But I guess I did change audio sources, change A/C temps., etc. This is par for the course with standard AP and I never had an issue.

Then last week, I was on a back road. No one around me. I was changing the radio stations during a morning commute and then I had to change my navigation destination. I simply clicked on navigation and switched destinations to one of my preset favorites. AP freaked out and disengaged. And then I saw the message. I was booted from the beta.

Kicked-Out.jpeg


Then ensued tons of reading. I discovered that I was doing it wrong. I should have turned off FSD during my normal commutes and ONLY used it when I wanted to “test” it and pay 100% full attention to the road without even changing the radio station. But I didn’t know. And now after 2.5 years, thousands of dollars, 45,000 miles of safe AP driving, and 30 days of excruciatingly safe Safety-Score driving, I’ve lost what I only had for a few drives, and may never get it back. Man, that SUCKS!

Now a couple of questions for those of you more in the know than me.

1) Does anyone know if I will get FSD beta access back? When?
2) If I email Tesla and officially back out of the beta, will I get my old less-nagging AP back?
3) Can I then re-apply for the beta and go through another safety score test and get FSD back?

So frustrating not knowing the answers to these questions. Of course I called Tesla and the guy on the phone was useless. I do have service scheduled next week and will ask, but I’m pretty sure they won’t know anything either.

For those of you with FSD beta access right now, be careful, and learn from my mistakes!
 
Sounds like a bug in the "two strikes" logic. Send an email the FSD beta mailbox.
It is three (3) Inattentive warnings within 10 miles and you are removed from FSD Beta. I believe that is is extremely sensitive. I average about 1 per day, but recently my wife kept asking questions during a drive, looked down briefly and bam a second warning close together. The remainder of the drive I was like a hawk watching the road...
 
It is three (3) Inattentive warnings within 10 miles and you are removed from FSD Beta. I believe that is is extremely sensitive. I average about 1 per day, but recently my wife kept asking questions during a drive, looked down briefly and bam a second warning close together. The remainder of the drive I was like a hawk watching the road...
Something is definitely wrong with your cabin camera. I can look at the display as long as I would want to (and much longer than I would deem safe) and never get a warning. The only things that gets me a warning is looking outside of the car, and away from the road ahead, for a good ten seconds or so, or moving my body in such a way the camera can’t see me at all (which happened when I was stopped at a red light and reached for something on the passenger floor.

And it’s not 3 warnings within ten miles. It’s three forced disconnects, each of which takes three audible warnings. (I’m not sure where your ten mile thing comes from.) And it isn’t ALL audible warnings that count either. It’s only those that arise from ignoring he hands on wheel and subsequent blue flashing. Immediate audible warnings, such as those that occur when you aren’t providing torque on the wheel while AP is in a low-confidence situation, don’t count.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Silicon Desert
It is three (3) Inattentive warnings within 10 miles and you are removed from FSD Beta. I believe that is is extremely sensitive. I average about 1 per day, but recently my wife kept asking questions during a drive, looked down briefly and bam a second warning close together. The remainder of the drive I was like a hawk watching the road...

Yeah that seems way too sensitive. best thing to do if you're concerned about the 3 strikes, is to disengage FSD, drive without it for a while, so the timer resets. You can stare at your phone or your center screen all day if FSD is not actually engaged. Not recommended tho :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: okcazure and K5TRX
Wow. Makes me glad that my 2020 S doesn’t have an internal camera! Good luck.
Now that you mention it, that brings back a thought from a month ago. I have asked people about my question out at the factory, but it is not their line of expertise.

Since I don't have an internal camera, I am curious as to how it determines you are not paying attention. Is it tracking head position, or is it smart enough to track eye movement. If the later is the case, then what happens when you have on dark sunglasses where it can't see your eyes?
 
  • Like
Reactions: FlyF4
I got my third and final strike the other day due to new v11. I was trying to find the location of a setting that changed in the new software.

I couldn’t even change the music without the damn thing screaming at me. It is way to sensitive. I should be able to complete standard car operations without an issue.

I was talking to my wife about it and she says she never gets it. I drive a 3 and she drives a Y. I am 6 ft tall and she is only 5ft tall. I’m wondering if the Lower camera position in the 3 and me being taller affects it. I have to move my head more to look at the screen than she does.

To be honest was getting tired of all the nagging and worrying about hitting the limit. I almost in the camp of just give it to me when it works.
 
An easy heuristic for those wondering about the value proposition of FSD: would you pay the current price for the current capabilities? If yes, buy it. If no, don't. Anything 'coming soon' should be viewed as a bonus; certainly don't bank on it.

Many would disagree, but, for me, it was well worth it at the current $10k price. My car is the most badass thing I own; I enjoy the heck out of it basically every day.
 
I am in a unique place where I was enrolled in FSD beta, then service replaced the FSD computer.

Now I am back on 10.2, but according to the car, I am up to date.

We shall see what happens over the next week, if I get FSD Beta back or if I am stuck in some weird place with my current version.

My wife is relieved she doesn't have to stumble through V11 UI anymore at least!
 
I am a Tesla enthusiast for a long time.I got my first Model X back in 2016 with Autopilot.I love driving Tesla from the very beginning.As I have M1 capability so as technology advanced I start missing new features so decided to replace the old model x with 2020 version.I love the highway FSD stuff when it came and start waiting when city streets version will come.I enrolled myself in Beta FSD program right from the beginning and as soon beta FSD invitation came up with scoring I enrolled myself in to it.I started with a score of 100 and settled on 98 for several weeks.Finally I decided to pull myself out of beta testing and get a fresh start.I re enrolled and this time kept my self on 99 score for over 2 weeks and finally got beta fsd 10.8.I just love it.to me it is very good.Right and left turn,round about entry and exit,lane changing etc so far so good.Yes off course it is not perfect and one has to be very attentive,couple of times I have to take over immediately as it acted weird but majority of time very smooth experience.I live near Baltimore in the suburb and commute daily on very busy roads but FSD has proved to me that it has the potential to get better and better day by day.In my 2020 Model X,no inside camera so I do not have to worry about camera looking at me.I am not sure how Tesla keep an eye on those who do not have in cabin camera.
Overall I am very happy with beta FSD despite its limitations.
 
I know that being kicked out of FSD Beta to where it will not re engage during the drive will kick you out. But I also know of individuals who have been warned with the inattentive on screen warning have been kicked out for FSD without any Autopilot Lockouts.

"Hello,

You are receiving this email because telemetry from your vehicle was flagged for improper usage of the FSD Beta feature.

Specifically, while using the FSD Beta feature, you or another driver of your vehicle received:


  • Two or more “strikeouts,” which resulted in the loss of Autopilot availability for that drive; or
  • At least one “strike” per 5 km (about 3 miles) driven on Autopilot, which is a visual and audible warning that requires attention.
This is your only warning to please keep your hands on the wheel and remain attentive at all times when using Autopilot. The car is not autonomous, and if you aren’t paying attention, a crash could happen, and you or others could get hurt, or worse, so failure to abide by this warning will result in removal of the FSD Beta feature from your vehicle.

The Tesla Team"

I am in a unique place where I was enrolled in FSD beta, then service replaced the FSD computer.

Now I am back on 10.2, but according to the car, I am up to date.

We shall see what happens over the next week, if I get FSD Beta back or if I am stuck in some weird place with my current version.

My wife is relieved she doesn't have to stumble through V11 UI anymore at least!
Send an Email to [email protected] and explain what happened. This goes on with those who have FSD Beta and get a new Car. The FSD Beta gets transferred to the new car it they purchased FSD with the car or buy subscription... I know that this is what DirtyTesla did on Youtube. It maybe a week or so, but you will get it back...
 
  • Like
Reactions: K5TRX
Let’s be honest about this. We don’t know the statistics but probably hundreds of thousands of us paid $10K. NOT ONE would have paid if it was mentioned that it is a “customer funded experimental project”.
I paid for FSD knowing it was a “customer funded experimental project”. Twice. I bought a 2018 Model 3 with FSD, 2 years after FSD was promised. I bought a Model Y with FSD in 2020, again full well knowing the countless Elon Musk promises and knowing that the word Beta is everywhere.

What did I expect? I expected that Tesla would keep adding features and upgrades. Here is @R0cco_Speranza's list of hundreds of new features and upgrades since 2017. Name any other car that has had a single significant new feature added Over the Air.

I also expected that my 2018 Model 3 would need to be upgraded to HW3. It was, for free. I bet we will have to be upgraded to HW4 and higher def cameras as well.

And since light can't penetrate solids or reflective liquids, I don't know how FSD cameras can work in fog, rain, snow, on snow packed streets, or with sunshine blocking front or B cameras. Even fallen leaves covering the road disable FSD. I bet we will get RADAR back or even LiDAR.

Owning Tesla's has been a great experiment so far. I can't wait to see what happens next.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeHolliday
And since light can't penetrate solids or reflective liquids, I don't know how FSD cameras can work in fog, rain, snow, on snow packed streets, or with sunshine blocking front or B cameras. Even fallen leaves covering the road disable FSD. I bet we will get RADAR back or even LiDAR.

With heavy weather, both cameras and lidars will be rendered ineffective, leaving only radar that can see through it. Unfortunately, radar is very low resolution (the kind of radar that would be affordable in a car), so you would not be able to rely upon it with the other 2 sensors knocked out. I think we just assume that the sum of functionality with sensor fusion magically solves all issues. It doesn't.

When the weather is that bad, and you're caught in it (ideally you would have anticipated it and not started a drive), the universal solution for both human and AI is to slow down so that you can react to things based on how far you can see. If you can only see 20ft in front of you, you better be going really slow. I see no reason why FSD can't handle extreme weather if it just crawled along.
 
That doesn't seem to be the question that him/her was asking. Seems they want to know if the camera is tracking eye movement or just head movement.
...I am curious as to how it determines you are not paying attention. Is it tracking head position, or is it smart enough to track eye movement. If the later is the case, then what happens when you have on dark sunglasses where it can't see your eyes?

Sorry for answering an off-topic.

It seems to track head and eye movement and any cell phone come to its field of vision.


I assume if the eyes are covered, it would look for the head direction because most people would turn their head if they want to enter an address rather than keep their head straight and glance down to the right. I assume that if it cannot detect the eyes, it can also issue an error message.
 
  • Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: KrenGrl and T-Mom
Let’s be honest about this. We don’t know the statistics but probably hundreds of thousands of us paid $10K. NOT ONE would have paid if it was mentioned that it is a “customer funded experimental project”. What it said was “COMING SOON - AUTO STEER ON CITY STREETS”. And on top of that the CEO himself advertises that it will be a reality very very soon!!! Not that it is facing issues and may need lots of experimentation so those investing the $10K are WILLINGLY FUNDING teslas FSD development process”!! I do feel it is a lawsuit waiting to happen. There is some lack of clarity to say the least when they charge that $10K. The question really is WILL TESLA DELIVER on the auto steer in city streets in a legally compliant manner? If so how soon? Now don’t bash me for saying this as they are many who have sworn to never question and condemn anyone that even questions. I am 100% committed to my Tesla buy and recommend everyone who can afford to get one for SAFETY and also PEACEFUL DRIVING EXPERIENCE. All I am saying is that the business approach to selling the FSD needs to be very clear as to what folks are buying into. What if Tesla cannot perfect the autosteer on city? Will the lane change feature be it for the $10K? I would say that should be worth $2.5K similar to the acceleration boost? If you also see MANY AWARE BUYERS NOW are clearly steering away fro paying the $10K. Why? Only because now feedback from early adopters have filtered back indicating that it’s basically what you posted “a deceptive consumer funded development strategy without a definitive or deliverable endpoint”!!! That’s a bad approach. Be clear when you ask the $10K. That’s all I am saying
You are right. I'm just pointing out how Elon operates. He sells a "700hp car", design studio says "691hp motor power" and 2 years later he says "well, the motors could produce 691hp if they were in a different car with a much better battery and inverters" and guess what, he gets away with that. They manage to convince arbitrators that a yellowing screen on a 6 month old Model S is perfectly ok and not covered under warranty because it doesn't affect any safety too. Over time they got even more legal CYA. FSD always said that Tesla doesn't knows nor can predict when it will be available. It never said you are entitled to beta software either, only to the full, complete version which nobody knows when it's coming. Soon is relative, can mean milliseconds or 100 years, depending on interpretation.

What I'm saying is Elon exemplifies the classic car salesman stereotype but updated for 21st century. If he simply focused on developing new tech, instead of selling vaporware and fine print his way out of delivering, he'd be a hero to everyone. HOWEVER, he does do some very impressive things and helps human kinds progress in areas such as EV's or space exploration by pushing the boundaries of technology. Some may argue that perhaps without selling vaporware, he cannot afford to fund all the development. Moral dilemma, imagine a company coming up with cure for cancer, but that company funded this development by selling placebo drugs for hair growth, erection, sexual stamina, etc. and essentially ripping people off. Is the company a good or bad thing for society?
 
Hi everyone, apologies for the long post, but I feel like my M3 investment deserves this airing! I’m not a super-frequent visitor here, but have read many threads over the 2.5 years I’ve had my beloved Dual Motor Model 3. I’m posting today to explain how I was unceremoniously booted from the FSD beta program last week. But before I get into that, a little background.

First and foremost: I love my M3. It has changed my life. I previously had a Subaru Forrester. I’m a consultant and drive about 1-2 hours per day, going to various client sites. For a couple years leading up to the M3 purchase, my body, and particularly my back, would be *hurting* after longer drives in the Forrester. I was honestly asking myself how I was going to keep going with my career, with the aches and pains that driving was causing me. Then I looked into a Model 3. And the rest is history.

I use autopilot 90% of the time I’m in the car. Always paying attention, of course, but able to rest my body. No feet pressing the pedals. No hands clutching the wheel. It’s astounding what a toll that takes on the (50-year-old) body, day in and day out. I can drive 2 hours in the M3 and not feel like I was in the car at all. That's life changing!

Now, first of all, I’m no Elon/Tesla complainer/hater. I love the car so much, tech warts and all. Auto-wipers suck—don’t care. Road noise is significant—don’t care. Unresolved trim issues at purchase—don’t care. The car is just amazing. Best purchase I have ever made, without question. Second: I pay attention when I drive, and know how the Model 3 works. I have logged about 45,000 miles on autopilot. I know how to pay attention, and I know when and how to prove that to the M3.

Now for the sad part. The FSD beta was simply yanked from my car last week, with no email notice, and little to no in-car warning. If something was presented on the screen, it was small, looked like any other message, and, ironically, it must have been showing when I was driving and paying attention to the road!

I got the FSD beta a few weeks ago after a painstaking 30 days of getting a 99 safety score, despite driving in really difficult areas of Boston and the suburbs. All sorts of people hard breaking in front of me, cutting me off, etc. But I was careful, as I always am, and maintained a 99 for a month which was no small feat. I got the FSD beta and was really psyched. Unlike some of you, I didn’t read a ton about it ahead of time. No time for that with 3 younger kids and a demanding job, all seriously affected by the pandemic. So I didn’t fully understand many things about FSD except for the fact that 1) I paid many thousands of dollars for it. 2) I’ve waited two and a half years for it. And 3) it doesn’t work very well so you have to be very careful.

I used FSD the day it downloaded and was struck by how bad it was on city streets. I was really surprised. It was exciting to see it trying to do things it couldn't do before, but I stopped using it. I pretty much only double-tap the gear stalk on major roads, and after that first bad experience, didn’t try it again for a week or so on city streets. The next time I tried it, in hindsight, I noticed extensive nags about paying attention. I was confused because I *was* paying attention. But I guess I did change audio sources, change A/C temps., etc. This is par for the course with standard AP and I never had an issue.

Then last week, I was on a back road. No one around me. I was changing the radio stations during a morning commute and then I had to change my navigation destination. I simply clicked on navigation and switched destinations to one of my preset favorites. AP freaked out and disengaged. And then I saw the message. I was booted from the beta.

View attachment 741416

Then ensued tons of reading. I discovered that I was doing it wrong. I should have turned off FSD during my normal commutes and ONLY used it when I wanted to “test” it and pay 100% full attention to the road without even changing the radio station. But I didn’t know. And now after 2.5 years, thousands of dollars, 45,000 miles of safe AP driving, and 30 days of excruciatingly safe Safety-Score driving, I’ve lost what I only had for a few drives, and may never get it back. Man, that SUCKS!

Now a couple of questions for those of you more in the know than me.

1) Does anyone know if I will get FSD beta access back? When?
2) If I email Tesla and officially back out of the beta, will I get my old less-nagging AP back?
3) Can I then re-apply for the beta and go through another safety score test and get FSD back?

So frustrating not knowing the answers to these questions. Of course I called Tesla and the guy on the phone was useless. I do have service scheduled next week and will ask, but I’m pretty sure they won’t know anything either.

For those of you with FSD beta access right now, be careful, and learn from my mistakes!
So you expected it to be useful at this point? It’s not even yet complete, much less fully tuned for everyday driving
 
An easy heuristic for those wondering about the value proposition of FSD: would you pay the current price for the current capabilities? If yes, buy it. If no, don't. Anything 'coming soon' should be viewed as a bonus; certainly don't bank on it.

Many would disagree, but, for me, it was well worth it at the current $10k price. My car is the most badass thing I own; I enjoy the heck out of it basically every day.
I mean, it’s worth it to you because it’s cool, not because you get anything out of it. That’s OK… but it’s not objectively worth 10k.

I find it A little funny people are complaining about getting strike outs while changing the radio. I just find their story… doubtful. I’ve gotten zero strikeouts and I’ve been in the beta since the first round. It isn’t that hard.
 
I mean, it’s worth it to you because it’s cool, not because you get anything out of it. That’s OK… but it’s not objectively worth 10k.

I find it A little funny people are complaining about getting strike outs while changing the radio. I just find their story… doubtful. I’ve gotten zero strikeouts and I’ve been in the beta since the first round. It isn’t that hard.
There is no such thing as "objective worth". Worth by definition is defined subjectively as "worth to someone". Even money itself only has subjective worth.
 
I mean, it’s worth it to you because it’s cool, not because you get anything out of it. That’s OK… but it’s not objectively worth 10k.

I find it A little funny people are complaining about getting strike outs while changing the radio. I just find their story… doubtful. I’ve gotten zero strikeouts and I’ve been in the beta since the first round. It isn’t that hard.
Couple days back an idiot in a truck was kissing my rear for quite some time and I was on FSD on a highway and pretty fast. Finally I got posses and just slammed hard on the accelerator taking off and leaving the prick like 2 miles behind. However as soon as I slammed on the accelerator pushing me to 90 mph+ speed my FSD got mad and kicked me off autosteer for remainder of the drive. I haven’t noticed anything since then as the FSD still works fine and I don’t see any specific notes under autopilot regarding number of boots. Hopefully it stays. The night drive on highway is simply amazing with the autosteer and lane change features. But entry and exit to highway is pure crap. It jumps onto the ramp at the same speed as the highway both on and off haha Doesn’t read the speed sign of the ramp
 
Well, I found out today that even though I had FSD beta already and 10.8.1, when they replaced my FSD computer, I was kicked off the beta. Not I am stuck at 10.2.

The worst part about it is that I had no idea but the car has been registering my safety score again for the last 6 days since I got it back from service. and I am probably not getting back into the FSD beta with these scores lol.

I already played the game, won and now have to go back and defeat the final boss again without the 2 button reset cheat code...damn.

I am seriously considering just driving the car until we all get FSD or my 95ish score is good enough to get back in. Really 10.2 with the radar support is damn good and handles highway 17 and my daily commute very well. If Tesla wants to make it this hard to play, they can find other free beta testers.

I emailed [email protected] but of course only got an auto-reply.