Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

[jelloslug]

Ok, so your "Range might vary"

I think we can appreciate that rounding errors due to lack of significant figures, plus temp variations in the pack due to ambient or internal temps due to power draw, plus recalibrations performed by the BMS, can cause RR to vary by a few miles.

Just look at Teslafi, and see the ranges of the cars similar to yours. You can see the RR vary with time.

However, I am not OK with the range algorithm being intentionally dishonest by using full nominal capacity including the buffer, to display a RR, than cannot be achieved, even on a new car, without using the buffer.

I don't want people making fun of my car a la Delorean, in 5 years. Elons behavior of late is about one bad drug deal away from making this dismal reality.

Elons actions have nothing to do with range. I switched to percentage years ago for the exact reasons I laid out on how easy it is to manipulate the range readout. Remaining range a meaningless number that people fret over way too much. I can go out right now and make my car get 50 miles more or less than the indicated remaining range but it if say 82%, it's not wrong.

 

[ucmndd]

I love the people that disagree with things that they can even do with their own car.

I’m disagreeing not with your anecdotal evidence but rather the causation you’re implying (specifically that an extended period of reduced wh/mi driving results in an increase in displayed range). It’s fully baseless and speculative and has no grounding in reality.

 

[aerodyne]

I’m disagreeing not with your anecdotal evidence but rather the correlation you’re implying. It’s fully baseless and speculative and has no grounding in reality.

You mean correlation does not prove causation? Lol

 

[aerodyne]

Elons actions have nothing to do with range. I switched to percentage years ago for the exact reasons I laid out on how easy it is to manipulate the range readout. Remaining range a meaningless number that people fret over way too much. I can go out right now and make my car get 50 miles more or less than the indicated remaining range but it if say 82%, it's not wrong.

Ok, I agree. But there have been many disappointments last year or so, and who is in charge? Where does the buck stop? It is not like he is afraid to fire people. Don't mean to mix up this thread, but recent tweets do not inspire confidence.

What would it take to just fix the range algorithm to not use the buffer? Not much, but would open up a lot of potential litigation at this point.

Also agree on percentage. One can keep it on miles, but navigate to your destination, which will hopefully show you arriving at a healthy percentage, or where to charge if needed, as well as adjust for HVAC, weather, traffic, and parking losses.

 

[dk10438]

Elons actions have nothing to do with range. I switched to percentage years ago for the exact reasons I laid out on how easy it is to manipulate the range readout. Remaining range a meaningless number that people fret over way too much. I can go out right now and make my car get 50 miles more or less than the indicated remaining range but it if say 82%, it's not wrong.

people use range at 90% or 100% to estimate degradation because they know what it was when they first got the car and what it is presently. I suppose that it's somewhat irrelevant for most people since they cannot attain EPA range in the real world so "range" is somewhat of a myth but at least it gives the owner some idea of the present battery capacity v. capacity when it was new. Like I said in an earlier post, battery degradation is a part of owning an electric car. Just disappointed since I thought that I was taking good care of the battery but I've read that degradation is more luck than anything else...

 

[jelloslug]

I’m disagreeing not with your anecdotal evidence but rather the causation you’re implying (specifically that an extended period of reduced wh/mi driving results in an increase in displayed range). It’s fully baseless and speculative and has no grounding in reality.

Except for the repeated tests done by multiple people over an extended period of time.

 

[ucmndd]

Except for the repeated tests done by multiple people over an extended period of time.

And how do those (no doubt quite scientific) “repeated tests” show a causal relationship?

Give me a break.

 

[aerodyne]

Ok, maybe I am one of those people now.

Car range was 259, during weeks of storage. Warm day today, charged to 62 from 57%.

Now car range reads 265. The app showed a higher SoC than it was set for.

When I was driving the car, range was 262 to 269 the last 18 months.

Can I speculate why? Sure. Can I prove anything? Probably not.

Does it matter? I dunno.

 

[aerodyne]

And SMT shows a whopping 77KwH nominal capacity, up 1.9 KwH from earlier today..

If I could only use it all, instead of only 73, then my RR would be true...

And it would be nice if I could drive, but car wont start, power reduced, car needs service messages...

 

[jelloslug]

And how do those (no doubt quite scientific) “repeated tests” show a causal relationship?

Give me a break.

Versus repeating a statement with no evidence over and over again?

 

[ucmndd]

Versus repeating a statement with no evidence over and over again?

You’re the one with the extraordinary claim, that goes against all accumulated knowledge of how the range indicator works (specifically that it has no relationship to driving style). So yes, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[ran349]

And SMT shows a whopping 77KwH nominal capacity, up 1.9 KwH from earlier today..

If I could only use it all, instead of only 73, then my RR would be true...

And it would be nice if I could drive, but car wont start, power reduced, car needs service messages...

Please post that SMT readout of 77 kWh. That would be the highest I've ever seen from an 85 kWh battery.

Car won't drive? Does SMT give any indication that something is wrong?

 

[aerodyne]

Car sleeping now, on life support with 2A going into the 12v. Will post SMT screen grab later. Actually saw 77.5 KwH when I first installed the reader in January.

Car is failing to charge the 12V regularly. SMT shows lower than normal resting voltage, and high currents.

Suspect the DC-DC converter or contactors. I think if defective, they will replace the pack. Really not looking forward to that!

 

[tomas]

As the title states, I’m disappointed that after 18k miles, my car already has 5.5 % degradation. When it was new, charging to 70% was 220 or 221 miles (about 315 at 100 %)

Now I’m only getting 209 miles which would give me about 298 miles at 100%. Thought I was taking good care of the battery, charge every night to 70 %, use super chargers infrequently and rarely charge over 90%.

From what I’ve read, I’m in the range of what is to be expected, but have more degradation than most? Charging habits don’t really predict degradation well anyway??

Wow this thread has gotten off track. There’s an easy answer to original post. It is NORMAL. Many Statistical studies have shown batteries degrade about 5% in first 6-18 months and little thereafter. Google it.

 

[aerodyne]

Agreed...but let me answer Ran's question with the attachment below.

The attachment shows 77 nominal vs 81.5 new. That is 5.5% degradation in 5 years and 34k miles.

 

[jelloslug]

You’re the one with the extraordinary claim, that goes against all accumulated knowledge of how the range indicator works (specifically that it has no relationship to driving style). So yes, the burden of proof is on you.

And I and many others have shown what is really happening with tests that you can repeat. Considering that what you are saying is just as "speculative", I would like to see some actual proof that it work the way you are suggesting.

 

[ran349]

Agreed...but let me answer Ran's question with the attachment below.

The attachment shows 77 nominal vs 81.5 new. That is 5.5% degradation in 5 years and 34k miles.

That is impressive for a 5 year old car. Do you think it is the original battery?

 

[aerodyne]

That is impressive for a 5 year old car. Do you think it is the original battery?

Yes, it is per service records... I am second owner.

May not stay in the car much longer though. Pretty sure the contactors are going, that requires major pack surgery. Will go to SC next week.

 

[MP3Mike]

May not stay in the car much longer though. Pretty sure the contactors are going, that requires major pack surgery. Will go to SC next week.

It isn't really major surgery. You don't have to take the big cover off or anything.

 

[aerodyne]

It isn't really major surgery. You don't have to take the big cover off or anything.

If it is the converter, yes. Contactors are in the main pack. According to a YT vid I saw it is a big deal and I can't imagine the SC doing it. I am now hoping it is the fuse in the converter....