kWh prices world-wide

[nwdiver]

Hmmm... my 10kW PV system cost ~$12k... and generates ~17MWh/yr; Over 20 years that's an average of $0.035/kWh. But my neighbors pay $0.097/kWh :wink:

 

[NorCalSJ]

In San Jose I'm on E-8 rate with PG&E (E-8 rate is no longer available, I was grandfathered in)

Summer

Baseline Usage $0.17151

101% - 130% of Baseline $0.18411

131% - 200% of Baseline $0.23787

201% - 300% of Baseline $0.30675

Over 300% of Baseline $0.30675


Winter
Baseline Usage $0.12088

101% - 130% of Baseline $0.13348

131% - 200% of Baseline $0.18723

201% - 300% of Baseline $0.25611

Over 300% of Baseline $0.25611

Total Customer Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.41160

 

[beeeerock]

In Calgary, Alberta, Canada I pay $0.0699/kWh on a fixed rate that does not vary.
They also lump in $7 Administration, $23.75 Distribution Charge, $23.90 Transmission Charge, Balancing pool allocation -$6.93 ??, Rate Riders $13.62, Local Access fee $14.04 for a Grand Total of $161.22.

Funny that I just saw your post after asking a similar question I'm about to ask here, again... LOL

Do all those other charges vary depending on your actual kWh consumption, or are they completely fixed whether you used 1 kWh that month or 10,000 kWh? I'm wondering whether a grid tie system in Alberta would simply offset at the fixed 7 cents or if more savings would be seen in the service charges too.

 

[mackgoo]

PG & E recently sent out notices that our Peak Rate in San Luis Obispo is increasing to $.41 per Kwh. Is there anyone in the world with a higher rate??

I would bet SDG&E.

 

[Dave EV]

I would bet SDG&E.

I'm currently paying SDG&E (EV-TOU2 rate plan) about $0.18 / kWh from 12am-5am, $0.48 from 12pm-6pm and $0.22 all other hours. From Nov 1 - May 31 peak rates go down to $0.21 and off-peak goes down slightly, too..

 

[ohmman]

These obscene peak rates in CA are gravy if you can install or co-op PV. I used over 3MWh last year and at my true-up had over $800 credit. They won't give you credit for a net positive usage, but it shows how shifting usage off-peak and generating on-peak can really arbitrage those rates.

I'm on EV-A. Summertime is 39.6c/kWh while I feed the grid. Overnights (pool pump, MS, well pump for irrigation) are about 10c/kWh. AC is rare as I'm close enough to the coast to have evening cooling.

 

[AntronX]

Florida Power & Light = $0.1182 / KWh

Rate: RS-1 RESIDENTIAL SERVICE
KWh used: 1896
Service days: 32
Average KWh/day = 59.25

Customer charge: $7.57
Non-fuel: (First 1000 kWh at $0.057690) = $119.08
(Over 1000 kWh at $0.068510)
Fuel: (First 1000 kWh at $0.028020) = $62.09
(Over 1000 kWh at $0.038020)
----------------------
Total Electric service amount = $188.74

Storm charge $2.84
Gross receipts tax $4.91
Franchise charge $11.79
Utility tax $15.90
-----------------------------------
Total taxes and charges $35.44

Total charges = $224.18

They offer TOU rate to encourage load shifting to off-peak hours, during which they give credit of 3.919 cents/KWh to offset fuel charge of 3.802 cents. Assuming I could load shift 39 KWh per day to off-peak from the above bill (to completely zero out on-peak demand), that would zero out electric service charge and leave only taxes and charges for the monthly total of $49.18 or $0.0245/KWh. At $250/KWh battery cost it would take 10 years or 2553* charge cycles for battery and inverter cost to break even with power savings. At $150/KWh it becomes 6.5 years and 1702 cycles. Tesla are onto something big with their Powerwall.

Adding 15KWh/day electric car off-peak charging (~15K miles/year) would only increase the bill by $5.6 per month. That's basically $67.2 extra per year to drive 15K EV miles or 0.45 cents/mile. Night time fuel mix in my area is estimated at 50/50 gas/nuclear, or about 300g CO2/KWh. That makes night time EV "fuel" 2.6 times less carbon intensive compared to gasoline and 15 times cheaper. Without load shifting battery, the above EV charging cost remains the same and total bill becomes $195.

*Weekends are off-peak, so 1 year = 260 days or cycles. Depth of charge/discharge = 70%.

 

[ScepticMatt]

In Salzburg, Austria (Salzburg AG):

5,790 w/o , 6,948 cent per kWh w/ taxes fixed price. Trend going downward. Ubiquitous hydro + wind power.

Solar power makes no economic or environmental sense at the moment.

Privat OK - Privatkunden - Strom - Salzburg AG für Energie, Verkehr Telekommunikation

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Renewables subsidies in Germany are so stifling that the country’s July trade surplus jumped to +$25.5 billion, the largest since unification in 1990. Everyone has a well paying job, but the light bill is 4% higher than 2008!

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

SF Bay Area (PG&E is provider): If enrolled as an electric vehicle owner the peak rate is 43 cents per KWh, off-peak rate is 10 cents per KWh. Since I program my car for only off-peak charging, most of my bill is off-peak. I'd like to get a Powerwall and shift all my usage to off-peak. If a 10KWh is $3,500, it seems it'd pay for itself in a couple of years. Apparently Powerwalls aren't yet available to people without a solar array though?

 

[nwdiver]

If a 10KWh is $3,500, it seems it'd pay for itself in a couple of years. Apparently Powerwalls aren't yet available to people without a solar array though?

I can't imagine that a power wall w/o solar would cost <$5k... a DC/DC converter is significantly less expensive than the electronics that would be required to sync an inverter to the grid + charge the batteries.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Here's where I came up with the $3,500: Tesla Powerwall

As nwdiver implies, this may not be the price w/o solar.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Here in PA, I shop for power monthly (I'd do hourly, but even I think that's excessive)

TOTAL BILL: $0.118 per kWh.

 

[siucity]

SF Bay Area (PG&E is provider): If enrolled as an electric vehicle owner the peak rate is 43 cents per KWh, off-peak rate is 10 cents per KWh. Since I program my car for only off-peak charging, most of my bill is off-peak. I'd like to get a Powerwall and shift all my usage to off-peak. If a 10KWh is $3,500, it seems it'd pay for itself in a couple of years. Apparently Powerwalls aren't yet available to people without a solar array though?

I'm curious to see your calculations to get break-even in a couple of years. The one time I crunched some numbers, it seemed I would need at least 5 years. I'm also on PG&E, on the EV rate. I do have solar though (purchased, with break-even point of 7 years).

 

[dweeks]

Flagstaff AZ Arizona Public Service Electric Vehicle rates

May – October Billing Cycles (Summer)


$0.24784 per kWh during On-Peak hours, plus
$0.06460 per kWh during Off-Peak hours, plus
$0.04195 per kWh during Super Off-Peak hours


November – April Billing Cycles (Winter)
$0.20165 per kWh during On-Peak hours, plus
$0.06460 per kWh during Off-Peak hours, plus
$0.04195 per kWh during Super Off-Peak hours





TIME PERIODS
The On-Peak time period for this rate schedule is 12 noon to 7 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding the qualifying holidays listed below.

The Off-Peak time period for this rate schedule is 7 p.m. to 11 p.m. and 5 a.m. to 12 noon, Monday through Friday (non holidays), all day on weekends, and qualifying holidays.


The Super Off-Peak time period for this rate schedule is 11 p.m. to 5 a.m., Monday through Friday, excluding qualifying holidays.

Qualifying holidays include: New Year's Day (January 1), Memorial Day (last Monday in May), Independence Day (July 4), Labor Day (first Monday in September), Thanksgiving Day (fourth Thursday in November), and Christmas (December 25). When any holiday listed above falls on a Saturday, the preceding Friday will be recognized as the qualifying holiday. When any holiday listed above falls on a Sunday, the following Monday will be recognized as the qualifying holiday. Mountain Standard Time shall be used in the application of this rate schedule.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

PA has none of this on/off peak crap for my house... just flat rate.

 

[Robert.Boston]

PA has none of this on/off peak crap for my house... just flat rate.

Which means an EV owner is over-paying for electricity (assuming off-peak charging). All PA power is cleared through the PJM Interconnection's wholesale power market, which reprices power every hour (when purchased day-ahead) or every 5 minutes (when purchased in real time). Most power is purchased day-ahead, with the real-time market used to balance actual to forecast load.

The price of power swings sharply through the course of the day. PJM doesn't have pretty pictures, so here's the hourly wholesale electricity price plot from New England for Tuesday and Wednesday this week, which were unnaturally hot days:

A retailer selling at flat rates has to price in these $200/MWh ($0.20/kWh) peak hours; notice that overnight, the price falls to about $10/MWh ($0.01/kWh). When peak/off-peak pricing options are available, people who can control the timing of their power usage can save a lot of money.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'm curious to see your calculations to get break-even in a couple of years. The one time I crunched some numbers, it seemed I would need at least 5 years. I'm also on PG&E, on the EV rate. I do have solar though (purchased, with break-even point of 7 years).

From an email I sent to someone who worked for PG&E for years:

I believe a 10KWh Powerwall costs around $3,500 (I think they can also be leased), I currently use 40 KWh per day. But only 31% of that is at the peak rate. So I use about 12.5 KWh at 43 cents/KWh each day. That’s about the capacity of the Powerwall. So I could almost take all my electricity off-peak. I used 1,210 KWh last month, so instead of $270 total electric charges, I’d have owed 1,210X.0999 = $121. So I’d be saving about $150 bucks a month. 3,500/150 = 23 months. So the Powerwall might pay for itself in a couple of years, plus provide backup for power outages or brownouts.

It could be significantly better than that if I get a new HVAC system that’s all or nearly all electric plus an electric water heater.​

 

[siucity]

From an email I sent to someone who worked for PG&E for years:

I believe a 10KWh Powerwall costs around $3,500 (I think they can also be leased), I currently use 40 KWh per day. But only 31% of that is at the peak rate. So I use about 12.5 KWh at 43 cents/KWh each day. That’s about the capacity of the Powerwall. So I could almost take all my electricity off-peak. I used 1,210 KWh last month, so instead of $270 total electric charges, I’d have owed 1,210X.0999 = $121. So I’d be saving about $150 bucks a month. 3,500/150 = 23 months. So the Powerwall might pay for itself in a couple of years, plus provide backup for power outages or brownouts.

It could be significantly better than that if I get a new HVAC system that’s all or nearly all electric plus an electric water heater.​

Thanks for that info. That would be amazing if you can use power just from the Powerwall between 7am and 11pm (including partial peak times). We occasionally use the A/C (especially this week!) during peak hours, so my calculations were a bit different. Also, the $0.427/kWh peak rate drops to $0.294/kWh for the winter

 

[renim]

Which means an EV owner is over-paying for electricity (assuming off-peak charging). All PA power is cleared through the PJM Interconnection's wholesale power market, which reprices power every hour (when purchased day-ahead) or every 5 minutes (when purchased in real time). Most power is purchased day-ahead, with the real-time market used to balance actual to forecast load.

The price of power swings sharply through the course of the day. PJM doesn't have pretty pictures, so here's the hourly wholesale electricity price plot from New England for Tuesday and Wednesday this week, which were unnaturally hot days:

View attachment 93836
A retailer selling at flat rates has to price in these $200/MWh ($0.20/kWh) peak hours; notice that overnight, the price falls to about $10/MWh ($0.01/kWh). When peak/off-peak pricing options are available, people who can control the timing of their power usage can save a lot of money.

its a great graph to show why electricity is a service, not a commodity