LA/LADWP owners and TOU billing

[steinermeister]

For those who are in LA and stuck with LADWP...what's your take on simply doing TOU billing with no solar? I'm in a 3-5yr house, move in a few years, so I don't really want to invest in solar.

Essentially, before the Tesla (2 month cyles):

Winter: 1400-1500 kWh
Summer: 3000-3900 kWh

With the Tesla:

Winter: 1700-1900 kWh
Summer (est): 3500-4500 kWh

We're in an east/west facing house with direct sunlight in the afternoons that eclipses over the hill behind us and it's not getting much cooler. Someone is always home with the kids, our help, etc.

By pushing all the Tesla charging into the base period, I can certainly expect savings there, but is there a good model or calc to see the punishment of the 1-5pm hours in high peak? It seems like even if there's a little bit extra paid in summer for that usage, the overall cheaper rate the rest of the year makes sense (per cycle, we get 500 kWh in T1, 1000 kWh in T2 and the rest in T3, so we're always in T2 if not T3 now)? Goal is not to save a bunch of money (because we're talking between $100-150/cycle savings about), but if I can pay less, then why not...

Looking for advice from other owners who did not have solar and perhaps ran numbers before they opted to have LADWP replace their standard R1-A service with the TOU R1-B service.

Thanks in advance

 

[MelaniainLA]

1. Get TOU service. It’s worth it. Set car to charge after 8pm. We have it and it’s dirt cheap. And doesn’t eat into your electric quota!

2. LADWP will reimburse you the cost of a new Tesla HPWC Wall charger!! Buy one and send in the rebate form ASAP before program ends in June. Everyone in LADWP should do!!

 

[steinermeister]

1. Get TOU service. It’s worth it. Set car to charge after 8pm. We have it and it’s dirt cheap. And doesn’t eat into your electric quota!

2. LADWP will reimburse you the cost of a new Tesla HPWC Wall charger!! Buy one and send in the rebate form ASAP before program ends in June. Everyone in LADWP should do!!

For #1: Did you find just having the base period alone superseded the extra costs that you might get hit with for the 1-5pm window? I'm trying to find a reason not to go TOU, but it seems like at worst it will be a wash over 12mo, but at best could save some bucks here and there.

For #2: Absolutely, got it back last October...no reason not to do it. Was funny though, they initially denied it because my picture of the install wasn't high quality so they couldn't verify it was a L2 charger...rolled my eyes to that one (as if Tesla has anything less than a L2 charger...)

 

[MelaniainLA]

For #1: Did you find just having the base period alone superseded the extra costs that you might get hit with for the 1-5pm window? I'm trying to find a reason not to go TOU, but it seems like at worst it will be a wash over 12mo, but at best could save some bucks here and there.

For #2: Absolutely, got it back last October...no reason not to do it. Was funny though, they initially denied it because my picture of the install wasn't high quality so they couldn't verify it was a L2 charger...rolled my eyes to that one (as if Tesla has anything less than a L2 charger...)

Yep!

And funny re #2. They look for any reason to deny!!!

 

[ForeverFree]

Install separate TOU service just for EV charging. That's actually what DWP encourages.

Keep your regular residential service for everything else.

If you do so, DWP offers a 2.5 cent (roughly 20%) discount off base rate charging use.

 

[steinermeister]

Install separate TOU service just for EV charging. That's actually what DWP encourages.

Keep your regular residential service for everything else.

If you do so, DWP offers a 2.5 cent (roughly 20%) discount off base rate charging use.

Only issue with that...is a separate TOU meter requires a new panel and riser, which those costs add up quick. I did the analysis and since this is only a 3yr or so house for me, I wouldn't see the payback hardly at all in my time here. It was roughly $1.5-2K to retrofit a dual meter box, new panel, new riser, city permits, etc.

 

[MelaniainLA]

Only issue with that...is a separate TOU meter requires a new panel and riser, which those costs add up quick. I did the analysis and since this is only a 3yr or so house for me, I wouldn't see the payback hardly at all in my time here. It was roughly $1.5-2K to retrofit a dual meter box, new panel, new riser, city permits, etc.

Talk to Oran at Oran’s electric. Tell him the guy in Brentwood with 2 chargers in condo garage sent you. Beg for cash discount. Me might oblige. That said, may not be worth for temp home.

 

[boriszima]

Only issue with that...is a separate TOU meter requires a new panel and riser, which those costs add up quick. I did the analysis and since this is only a 3yr or so house for me, I wouldn't see the payback hardly at all in my time here. It was roughly $1.5-2K to retrofit a dual meter box, new panel, new riser, city permits, etc.

I am in a similar situation. I am having hard time finding a good thread where somebody did it and shows cost analysis. Paying likely $2k upfront to save 2.5cents will take time.

 

[steinermeister]

I am in a similar situation. I am having hard time finding a good thread where somebody did it and shows cost analysis. Paying likely $2k upfront to save 2.5cents will take time.

Correct. Here's some recent data if this helps:

After a few months have come and gone, one billing cycle has completed and I think skipping it was the best economical decision. Here's one sample:

Rate R1-A (Standard): For period 5/23/17 through 7/24/17, no EV, I used 4,210kWh which costed me $921.90 including all taxes and fees.
Rate R1-B (Time of Use): For period 5/22/18 through 7/23/18, incl EV, I used 4,602kWh which costed me $873.70 including all taxes and fees.

If I used the same 4,602kWh in 2017, I would've paid another ~$100 without any rate increases (which there was). All being said, I saved $150 by going to TOU, being a little smarter about power use during the high peak (and the AC can't keep up with 100F+ anyways). Needless to say I was pretty happy with the outcome.

Then comes the equation whether the $1.5-2K is worth it for the panel upgrade/dedicated TOU meter -- if all things are equal, I would save another $115 per cycle, so 6 times annually, or $690 MAX (this cycle was 2 of the highest 6 bills per year, likely $400-500 a year). My initial estimate of 3yrs holds true I think, but I don't think it's entirely a wise investment. For me, I have an aging AC that consumes 80-85% of my electric bill. In my specific case, I'd rather use the $2K against a ~$15K AC upgrade which would consume (based on my estimates) around half of its energy which should have a more substantial impact. Even with the AC out of the equation, that's a very long payback for what is a hassle/messy project.

I think simply going whole house TOU was the way to go.

 

[boriszima]

Correct. Here's some recent data if this helps:

After a few months have come and gone, one billing cycle has completed and I think skipping it was the best economical decision. Here's one sample:

Rate R1-A (Standard): For period 5/23/17 through 7/24/17, no EV, I used 4,210kWh which costed me $921.90 including all taxes and fees.
Rate R1-B (Time of Use): For period 5/22/18 through 7/23/18, incl EV, I used 4,602kWh which costed me $873.70 including all taxes and fees.

If I used the same 4,602kWh in 2017, I would've paid another ~$100 without any rate increases (which there was). All being said, I saved $150 by going to TOU, being a little smarter about power use during the high peak (and the AC can't keep up with 100F+ anyways). Needless to say I was pretty happy with the outcome.

Then comes the equation whether the $1.5-2K is worth it for the panel upgrade/dedicated TOU meter -- if all things are equal, I would save another $115 per cycle, so 6 times annually, or $690 MAX (this cycle was 2 of the highest 6 bills per year, likely $400-500 a year). My initial estimate of 3yrs holds true I think, but I don't think it's entirely a wise investment. For me, I have an aging AC that consumes 80-85% of my electric bill. In my specific case, I'd rather use the $2K against a ~$15K AC upgrade which would consume (based on my estimates) around half of its energy which should have a more substantial impact. Even with the AC out of the equation, that's a very long payback for what is a hassle/messy project.

I think simply going whole house TOU was the way to go.

thanks for reply. I will try to use similar math to check out my use. So far it seems i never hit Tier 2 in the past 2 years minus 2 times during summer, but now i got me smart thermostat which paid for itself in matter of 2-3 billing cycles. My AC is also original some 23 years old.

 

[Muzzman1]

So I have solar, and I added TOU quite a while ago. I got in touch with a guy over at LADWP who did an analysis of my usage and confirmed that TOU saves me bundles of $. I know for certain that having solar makes TOU a no brainer, also if no AC is used during the day without solar and charging the cars during base period it is also a no brainer.
I've attached a spreadsheet he made for me from a few years ago.
I hope this helps!