Lack of Destination Chargers

[SageBrush]

So 120 volts at 12 amps will only get you 1 kW so 3 miles per hour.

You mean one kWh will go 3 miles.

 

[gnuarm]

You mean one kWh will go 3 miles.

Equivalent to what I wrote. 1 kW is 1 kWh in 1 hour. At 3 miles per kWh, 1 kW is 3 MPH.

MPH is a common way to express charging rates. kW is purely a factor of the charger. To get MPH you have to factor in the mileage rating of the car as well. I get tired of converting all the time, so I usually just worry with the kW or kWh which is pretty equivalent to 1% of my car's total capacity.

 

[tes-s]

A destination charger can provide up to 72 amps which is typically 15 kW since they often are not on 240 volt circuits, but rather 208 volt circuits.

I regularly charge on a Tesla destination charger that is 80 amps. It happens to be on 240v service, though it is usually around 237v actual.

 

[Ulmo]

I want to purchase a Tesla vehicle (Model X) and use it to travel to our annual vacation destination in Orange Beach, Alabama. The Supercharger network will get us from Thunder Bay, ON to Orange Beach, AL but there are no destination chargers for our 5-week stay. The few destination chargers in the area are for patrons only and are not at condos. We stay at a rental condo with no EV charging facilities. Any suggestions?

Find out what socket has the most electricity at the condo. Sometimes you can find a 30 Amp 240 volt socket, get the right connector for a UMC that came with your car, and set the charging rate around 24 amps or less (maybe even 20 amps for safety). 20 amps at 200 volts is 4 kilowatts, so at 4 kilowatts per hour times 80% efficiency is ... 25.6 kilowatthours per 8 hours, or 31.25 hours to fully charge a 100kwh battery. If you're only using half the battery capacity each day on average per two day period and have it plugged in charging for sufficient amount of time, I think it's enough. Don't overcharge. Plan ahead for battery capacity per time period and trips away from charging. Have backup plans. And remember the less time you need to charge per day is the more time you get to spend at whatever day trip locations you're at. It's a juggling act, but with discipline it can work well. Most days will be easy, but every day requires distance planning to stay effective. When you're home with fire extinguisher the full 24 amps might be OK but remember not to use extension cords, and check the plug heating (bring any infrared gun you have to check it regularly and get a sense of comparison so each time you check it you know if it is being normal).

My main point is 240 volts is your friend as long as you are not a direct part of that circuit. The UMC that comes with every new Tesla car (and replacements sold by Tesla shop) is an effective cheap way to tap into that where available. Electric clothes dryer hookups are very often available. 240 volts is twice as much as 120 volts and can really make the difference without needing to increase wire size (USA standard wiring insulation is usually good to 600 volts, meaning 240 volts is already a cheap way to get more kilowatts without increasing amps), so you'll find it in many condos already.

Getting the right plug requires actually visiting the condo and ordering the correct part. Get one from Tesla especially made for the UMC if possible. That requires planning ahead. A photo of the dryer plug often suffices, so you can get the info before the trip, order the right part, and be prepared, but backup plans are necessary for the first few days in case of failure if you don't test it first.

 

[gnuarm]

I regularly charge on a Tesla destination charger that is 80 amps. It happens to be on 240v service, though it is usually around 237v actual.

Is that at a business or a home? While 240 is not unheard of in businesses, facilities in commercial areas usually are wired with three phase which normally provides 208 volts. There is a type of three phase transformer that gives 240 volts as well, but it is not prevalent. I guess my point is to not assume units are wired to 240 volts until you check. More often than not, I find level 2 charging to be 208 volts. Not a huge difference, but 13%.

 

[tes-s]

Is that at a business or a home?

Probably the best way to describe it is a business in a residential area. I was mostly posting about the amperage.

A destination charger can provide up to 72 amps which is typically 15 kW

Tesla destination charging can provide up to 80 amps. That would be 17kW on 208v service, and 19kW on 240v service. I have seen reports of 277v, but that is probably quite rare.

 

[SpiceWare]

I often utilize the electric dryer outlet such as during my recent trip to Fort Benning. You'll need the 14-30 adapter from Tesla, and a 14-30 extension cord if the dryer's not in the garage.

 

[gnuarm]

I often utilize the electric dryer outlet such as during my recent trip to Fort Benning. You'll need the 14-30 adapter from Tesla, and a 14-30 extension cord if the dryer's not in the garage.

View attachment 386745 View attachment 386746

That works if the dryer outlet is a 14-30. Many are the old 10-30. Only three prongs (one 'L' shaped) with no ground! Not a good idea.

Can you legitimately add a second outlet to a dryer circuit? If so, I would put a 14-30 in as a quick and dirty outlet for my car. I got a 14-30 along with a number of other adapters a while back and haven't checked out any of them.

 

[SpiceWare]

That works if the dryer outlet is a 14-30. Many are the old 10-30. Only three prongs (one 'L' shaped) with no ground! Not a good idea.

Tesla offers a 10-30 adapter, find it at that 14-30 link. The extension cord I linked to also has 10-30 versions available.

Can you legitimately add a second outlet to a dryer circuit?

No, circuit can't support the dryer and car using power at the same time - at best you'll trip the breaker, at worst you'll start a fire. You can use something like a Dryer Buddy though, it'll cut power to the car whenever the dryer is in use.

 

[gnuarm]

No, circuit can't support the dryer and car using power at the same time - at best you'll trip the breaker, at worst you'll start a fire. You can use something like a Dryer Buddy though, it'll cut power to the car whenever the dryer is in use.

Of course you can't power both devices at once. I can't power two electric heaters on the same 120 volt circuit either, yet I can have many outlets on the same circuit.

Using the dryer buddy would be problematic for me. My dryer is not in the garage, but it is on the other side of the wall from the garage. I could easily add a switch to select which one I want to use. In fact, I have ToU electric billing and would want a smart switch to control when the car charges. It wouldn't be hard to create a smart switch that both controlled the ToU and only selected one outlet at a time.

Anyone know if it is legit to wire up a 14-30 outlet without using the neutral wire? It would be easy to change the existing outlet to a 14-30 and switch the neutral wire to a ground, but I can't easily have both wires unless they are already wired.

 

[SpiceWare]

Difference is most of the things you plug into the 120 outlet don't draw that many amps, and the entire circuit tends to be rated for more than the outlets (my 15 amp outlets are on circuits with 20 amp breakers) whereas the car and the dryer will each max the circuit out by themselves.

Dryer Buddy was just a suggestion, and they do have options for long runs up to 55 feet away from the dryer like this for indoor and this for outdoor. Manual switch would work as well.

Why would you need a smart switch to control charging time? My 3's been scheduled to charge at midnight, though I'll be changing that soon as my solar & powerwall were installed on the 6th and I'd rather my car charge from the panels when I get back from my lunch break (I work from home and normally eat out for a change in scenery).

 

[X Fan]

This is best site for determining charging locations in USA: Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations

 

[gnuarm]

Why would you need a smart switch to control charging time? My 3's been scheduled to charge at midnight, though I'll be changing that soon as my solar & powerwall were installed on the 6th and I'd rather my car charge from the panels when I get back from my lunch break (I work from home and normally eat out for a change in scenery).

At this location I often plug in and let the car sit for days. When you leave a car plugged into and outlet it will draw power other than the initial charge. The smart controller will prevent it from drawing power at the wrong time. Tesla hasn't figured out the ToU thing yet, so smart controllers are needed.

 

[mjones]

My 3's been scheduled to charge at midnight, though I'll be changing that soon as my solar & powerwall were installed on the 6th and I'd rather my car charge from the panels when I get back from my lunch break (I work from home and normally eat out for a change in scenery).

It might be more beneficial to you to charge the car at night. For us, we get credit as high as 40 cents per kWh during peak solar generation. Whereas when we charge the car at night we are only consuming at about 13 cents per kWh. For our scenario, over the course of an entire year, there is allot of financial incentive to charge at night. Its clearly the difference between us having a small bill due at the end of the year vs owing somewhere around $1700 dollars.

 

[SpiceWare]

It might be more beneficial to you to charge the car at night.

Electricity's cheap in Texas, my prior plan was 0 (yes, zero) from 8pm-6am and 21 cents the rest of the time. I averaged 11 cents over the 5 months I was on that plan. My new plan is 1:1 net metering at 11.5 either way and no TOU.

And yes, the cheap electricity means it'll be a long time (15+ years) before my panels have paid for themselves.

 

[gnuarm]

It might be more beneficial to you to charge the car at night. For us, we get credit as high as 40 cents per kWh during peak solar generation. Whereas when we charge the car at night we are only consuming at about 13 cents per kWh. For our scenario, over the course of an entire year, there is allot of financial incentive to charge at night. Its clearly the difference between us having a small bill due at the end of the year vs owing somewhere around $1700 dollars.

I would consider adding solar, but they won't combine ToU billing with solar credits. Also, the solar billing is state mandated and I'm pretty sure once they change that there won't be any use to solar other than powering your own house. Of course every state varies and some states are more committed than others.

 

[SageBrush]

Also, the solar billing is state mandated and I'm pretty sure once they change that there won't be any use to solar other than powering your own house

Perhaps by that time you can hedge with a battery

 

[gnuarm]

Perhaps by that time you can hedge with a battery

Yeah, I suppose they will continue to get cheaper as cars use more and more. Higher volume production lowers prices in general. Until supply of some component creates shortages. I know there is one mineral needed for batteries that may have supply problems in the future. I also know they are working to eliminate it, but it isn't all that easy. It can be 10 or 20 years before that happens.

 

[SageBrush]

I hate to tell you, $0.21 is not cheap. Common rates run around $0.12 to $0.15 per kWh. Texas doesn't need much heat (at night), but they need cooling (during the day), so I guess that explains your billing.

His average was 11 cents a kWh -- that is a nice rate for utility electricity.
His net metering is a steal