Lack of promised FSD when sold as having from car dealer.

[Dr_Funk]

I bought a M3 LR second hand from a car dealer called Purecars in Wakefield back in October 2020. One of the essentials I wanted when purchasing my M3 was to have FSD enabled and I asked them to tell me if it did prior to buying which they confirmed by email.

However on taking hold of the car I found out it just has AP and tried to question them on this which they just bounced back and said it was my fault for not checking my self prior to taking hold and transfering funds and they would not engage further.

As such I took this up with the Motor Ombudsman last year and was initially told that it was possible I would have a case. 6 months later and no update so I decided to chase the ombudsman up yesterday and was told today that they could not take it further as FSD is not legal in the UK.

Despite going back and forth about what FSD actually means on a Tesla in the UK and trying to explain I would not have purchased the car from this dealer at the price I did if it did not have FSD I have got no where.

Anyone know if it is worth taking this further or just to accept I made a costly mistake. I am very happy with my M3 non the less but would have liked to have future proofed it.

 

[Somex]

I bought a M3 LR second hand from a car dealer called Purecars in Wakefield back in October 2020. One of the essentials I wanted when purchasing my M3 was to have FSD enabled and I asked them to tell me if it did prior to buying which they confirmed by email.

However on taking hold of the car I found out it just has AP and tried to question them on this which they just bounced back and said it was my fault for not checking my self prior to taking hold and transfering funds and they would not engage further.

As such I took this up with the Motor Ombudsman last year and was initially told that it was possible I would have a case. 6 months later and no update so I decided to chase the ombudsman up yesterday and was told today that they could not take it further as FSD is not legal in the UK.

Despite going back and forth about what FSD actually means on a Tesla in the UK and trying to explain I would not have purchased the car from this dealer at the price I did if it did not have FSD I have got no where.

Anyone know if it is worth taking this further or just to accept I made a costly mistake. I am very happy with my M3 non the less but would have liked to have future proofed it.

Caveat Emptor is my first response
Some dealers are robbin’ bar stewards is my second

 

[StevenJohnsonS]

This is extremely frustrating, I'm sorry you're going through this.

While shopping around, I found a 3 listed as having a FSD.
On the photograph however it showed as having autopilot. I called to clarify and they explained that when you click settings or whatever it says that it has a Full Self Driving Computer. I tried to explained that is the hardware, the extra packages is for the software. They didn't get that and kept it listed as FSD. Yours may have though the same, just one thought. Though that's their problem and not yours and if I was you I'd demand/expect either they pay for FSD or reimburse the value of it.

 

[ElectricBeaver]

Sounds like a misrepresentation to me, see here: Misrepresentation Act 1967

Did you pay for any of the car on credit card? If so, you may be covered under Section 75. There's a £30,000 upper limit - it's worth investigating, I'm not sure if that limit applies to the total purchase price, or the total damages that can be reclaimed.

 

[ElectricBeaver]

To add to the above, I've just looked up Section 75, see here: Section 75 Refunds

Seems that if the purchase was over £30,000 then there is no coverage, but Section 75a will cover you over £30,000 if you took out a credit agreement directly linked to the car. In that instance, you have to have made an unsuccessful complaint to the retailer first.

 

[Cardo]

Sounds like one for the small claims court, to me. If you have documentation where they state the car has FSD, then it should be worth a punt. At £6800 to enable FSD, it’s worth the time to take a punt on the SCC.

 

[Jez_GB]

What a frustrating experience!

I'd be taking it further, it's worth contacting the CAB and speaking to a brief (many offer a no charge initial consultation), at least you would know what your real options and chances of a successful claim might be. I'm astounded by the advice/information you received from the Ombudsman - what utter BS!

 

[Mark-R]

Looks like the Motor Ombudsman nearly always sides with the motor industry (don't bite the hand etc.)
The Motor Ombudsman is rated "Poor" with 2.0 / 5 on Trustpilot

The Citizens Advice website would suggest you have a case (i.e. not as described when sold):
Problem with a used car

 

[Durzel]

Any reason you didn’t reject the car? I would not have been relying on an ombudsman decision 6 months later if it was a deal breaker for me.

I suspect the problem here might have been the specificity of your complaint and/or it appears the ombudsman misunderstood it. It goes without saying that a completely unmanaged self driving car would be illegal, but that’s not the issue.

The fundamental problem is that your car was advertised and sold to you with an option that it did not have, and was not provided. It is no different than it being sold with upgraded alloy wheels and it coming with standard ones.

I assume the ombudsman decision is final?

 

[nxsynjs]

Quick google. Bought vehicle spec not as advertised - Page 1 - General Gassing - PistonHeads UK its about an ICE car, but I suspect it still applies.

 

[MrTT]

Small claims court may be the most economical way to proceed so long as you have proof of the misrepresentation and you can quantify the financial loss caused by the deal..ie to change the car for an equivalent with FSD.

It's a shame you delayed > 14 days from purchase.

 

[Jason71]

Any reason you didn’t reject the car? I would not have been relying on an ombudsman decision 6 months later if it was a deal breaker for me.

I suspect the problem here might have been the specificity of your complaint and/or it appears the ombudsman misunderstood it. It goes without saying that a completely unmanaged self driving car would be illegal, but that’s not the issue.

that is how I read it sounded to me as if the ombudsman thought you were complaining that you bought a car that you thought was self driving and it was not. Since there is no such thing he thinks you should have known better and its your misunderstanding.
Obviously you are talking about a specific feature called "Full self driving" which is a software feature costing £6800. What it can and cannot do is irrelevant. Whether its possible to do anything may hinge on the specific wording in the email and whether it is unambiguous.

 

[GlynG]

The consumer Act is your friend here. If the dealer has confirmed the vehicle you are purchasing has FSD - Full Self Drive rather than Autopilot - or perhaps a phrase like Full Autopilot then there is no ambiguity - the car should have the FSD package. Your contract was made with the dealer that the car had FSD. There was an offer - (the details of the car) - An acceptance by you to buy it - and a consideration - (the money you paid to the dealer). This is your contract - therefore if the car doesn't not have FSD and the garage are not offering to pay to have FSD enabled then they are in breach of contract - in short you have them by their short and curlies.

The law is clear - If you buy anything and make a stipulation the item has to do something, or perhaps be suitable for a purpose outside of the normal expectation of the product and they agree to sell you the item knowing your expectation then they are liable if the product fails when used in the way you stipulated - an example - You buy a dozen Eggs, you tell the shop you intend to use the eggs to mount a half ton statue on top of the box with the eggs in - and the eggs mustn't break - if the shop sells you the eggs knowing that - and of course they break they are responsible for refunding the cost of the eggs plus any damages sustained to the statue when it fell over.
A more sensible scenario - you by a one ton pick up and tell the dealer you intend to carry 1.5 tons of rock about because you are a sculptor - will the van take this weight - If they tell you yes it will and the vans suspension breaks when loading or driving with 1.5 ton on board - then they are liable.

You will need proof you asked about FSD - and proof they confirmed it had it or will have it. It matters not whether the car had FSD at the time of purchase because its something that just maybe the garage intended on paying to have it on completion of the sale.
The fact you have had it some time before you realised it didn't have FSD is irrelevant, the Covid situation has prevented many from using their cars on motorways - the very roads the FSD is equipped to deal with, perhaps you had an extended period of isolation? However - It matters not - If you state the car has to have FSD and they didn't equip the car with it then its a breach of contract - and just because you have FSD there is no law that says you have to use it - so a complete red herring about the time it took you to find out the car didn't have it.

FSD is totally legal in the UK, The term FSD is just Tesla's name they call their driver assistance package.

If you have the proof FSD was a requirement and they confirmed it did have it then go fill your boots - you cant loose - unless the business wraps up.

 

[drewpost]

Quick clarification. Was this just the motor trader incorrectly describing the car or did the car have FSD that was taken off by Tesla after it was bought at auction by the motor trader?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I'd agree that "FSD" os the name Tesla give to their top driver assistance package and not that the car can actually do it to avoid any rebuittable like you;ve already had.

Going to court is likely to be your ownly option. There;s a good guide on the topic here which both highlights the problem (dealers with pick their words carefully to confuse or just don't know) and how to check before purchase for anybody else reading. Tesla Full Self Driving FAQ

It doesn't matter if the dealer bought it at auction and it was subsequently stripped, the dealer will know what the spec was and should know Teslas policy of altering the car later if that is what happened, it's certainly not your problem.

 

[NewbieT]

Do you still have the advert? Playing devils advocate: did the dealer mis-represent the car (through ignorance or choice) or did you mis-understand/mis-communicate your clarification. The car does have a FSD computer, just not the FSD software option. How clear is the advert/description?

Your verbal clarification might be hard (but not impossible to rely upon) did you get it in writing? You don’t want to be in a he said-she said situation. Verbal representations can form part of the contract and no doubt the phone call induced the contract.

 

[speedyranger74]

Sometimes, the salesman, don't have any clue about FSD...

Buying a used FSD car from Tesla, first hand experience

What is full self driving capability? Does this used car have it? If so, why would it still have hw2.5? Why won’t they install hw3 for me? Hope this helps someone in the market as it’s confusing for sure....I bought a 2018 MR a couple months ago from Tesla, and had it shipped to my nearest...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Cnixon]

Quick clarification. Was this just the motor trader incorrectly describing the car or did the car have FSD that was taken off by Tesla after it was bought at auction by the motor trader?

Whoa. Surely Tesla can only remove FSD from a car in their possession. Otherwise its theft.

 

[Jason71]

Whoa. Surely Tesla can only remove FSD from a car in their possession. Otherwise its theft.

correct. They only remove it if you sell the car back to them or it was enabled by mistake in the first place which has happened once or twice

 

[MrBadger]

There seems to be a clause that I hadn't spotted until recently about it can be removed if car goes to auction. I cannot find the reference after a few quick looks in the obvious places.