Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Laguna Beach, CA accident, title claims "autopilot" involved.

Mar 25, 2013
628
561
Key West, FL
So I assume the driver's insurance will pay to replace his car, AND the police cruiser's? Ouch! Wonder what the hike in his premium will be. And will he have 2 points docked against him by the DMV?
 

ArizonaP85

Member
Apr 6, 2017
265
430
Phoenix
Interesting replies and aerial views of road layout in replies under this tweet:

Laguna Beach PD PIO on Twitter
For those who don't click on the link, the road widened from a single lane into two: a through (left) lane and a right turn only lane in which parking (presumably only at certain times) is allowed. AP centered itself on the new right lane and clipped the left rear of the police Explorer parked at the curb.

Two complete failure of the driver:

1. Engaging AP in that environment.
2. Failing to look at the road ahead.

In the absence of driving-facing camera to track whether or not the driver is looking forward, to avoid future easily preventable collisions and ugly headlines, Tesla should consider geofencing AP to divided highways as it instructs drivers.
 

Economite

Member
Dec 19, 2016
488
411
Los Angeles
So I assume the driver's insurance will pay to replace his car, AND the police cruiser's? Ouch! Wonder what the hike in his premium will be. And will he have 2 points docked against him by the DMV?

Yup... Assuming both cars are declared totaled (and the Tesla was sufficiently insured), the driver's insurance will be paying replacement cost on both cars.

His (or her) insurance rates will go up a lot, but not necessarily because the claim value is so high. With a lot of insurance carriers (including Progressive in CA) the impact on a driver's insurance rate is based on the number of at-fault accidents that have damage above a certain (low) threshold. So the impact on rates of an accident causing $2,000 in damage is the same as the impact of an accident causing $125,000 in damage.

And, yes, the collision will be charged against the driver on his/her DMV record, since this kind of accident will get reported to the DMV.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,339
Knoxville, Tennessee
I think that's the shot that makes the poor lane markings most obvious. Follow that solid white line on the right until you hit a car. That's what the road makers want isn't it?

Why are there parking spaces inside the turn lane with what looks like not enough space to pass the parked cars without crossing the solid white line left of the turn lane?

DeZAp9aVQAAwG3S.jpg
 

Astraviel

Member
Mar 4, 2018
178
302
Vancouver, BC
I think that's the shot that makes the poor lane markings most obvious. Follow that solid white line on the right until you hit a car. That's what the road makers want isn't it?

Why are there parking spaces inside the turn lane with what looks like not enough space to pass the parked cars without crossing the solid white line left of the turn lane?

DeZAp9aVQAAwG3S.jpg
That is a very strange road. There shouldn't be parking spaces there.
 

Rockster

Active Member
Oct 22, 2013
3,010
4,617
McKinney, TX
Wow. Yet another nimrod who is incapable of following simple instructions. I have 80,000 miles in an AP1 car, most of it with AP engaged and despite AP’s quirks I’ve followed the common sense instructions to stay in control of the vehicle. And guess what? I’ve never wrecked.

I have zero sympathy for someone who refuses to keep both hands on the wheel and stay prepared to take control at any time.

In the current implementation, with the very clear user instructions, there’s simply no such thing as an accident that’s autopilot’s fault. Period.
 

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,880
1,362
PA
Wow. Yet another nimrod who is incapable of following simple instructions. I have 80,000 miles in an AP1 car, most of it with AP engaged and despite AP’s quirks I’ve followed the common sense instructions to stay in control of the vehicle. And guess what? I’ve never wrecked.

I have zero sympathy for someone who refuses to keep both hands on the wheel and stay prepared to take control at any time.

In the current implementation, with the very clear user instructions, there’s simply no such thing as an accident that’s autopilot’s fault. Period.

Great job AEB! Oh right we dont like to talk about that.
 

Rockster

Active Member
Oct 22, 2013
3,010
4,617
McKinney, TX
Great job AEB! Oh right we dont like to talk about that.


So, AEB didn’t activate? You’re sure of that? And, even if it did, perhaps you’re expecting that it would have prevented the collision, despite the documentation to the contrary?

It seems today’s world has completely lost the ability to assume personal responsibility.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,339
Knoxville, Tennessee
Great job AEB! Oh right we dont like to talk about that.

So, AEB didn’t activate? You’re sure of that? And, even if it did, perhaps you’re expecting that it would have prevented the collision, despite the documentation to the contrary?

It seems today’s world has completely lost the ability to assume personal responsibility.

AEB only kicks in for frontal collisions where there is another object moving in front of the Tesla going the same way. This collision was a sideswipe. AEB would not trigger because it is designed not to trigger for anything outside of the obvious case.


For example from the Model 3 manual
Automatic Emergency Braking

The forward looking camera(s) and the radar sensor are designed to determine the distance from an object (vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian) traveling in front of Model 3. When a frontal collision is considered unavoidable, Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to apply the brakes to reduce the severity of the impact.

But the Police vehicle hit wasn't traveling in front. It was parked on the side of the road.

So collision in question was a Model S not a Model 3 will you see a difference if I pull from the other owners manual?

Automatic Emergency Braking
The forward looking camera(s) and the radar sensor are designed to determine the distance from an object (vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian) traveling in front of Model S. When a frontal collision is considered unavoidable, Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to apply the brakes to reduce the severity of the impact.

Hmm, traveling in front, not parked on the side of the road. I'm thinking the owners manuals all sing the same tune. Stopped vehicles don't get any consideration from AEB.
 
Last edited:

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,880
1,362
PA
So, AEB didn’t activate? You’re sure of that? And, even if it did, perhaps you’re expecting that it would have prevented the collision, despite the documentation to the contrary?

It seems today’s world has completely lost the ability to assume personal responsibility.

You are inspiring me to go back to the Autopilot page and watch the vehicle drive around hands free.

Honestly I have no clue how someone thinks it is safe to take their hands off the wheel.
Where would they even get that idea?
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ricebucket

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,880
1,362
PA
AEB only kicks in for frontal collisions where there is another object moving in front of the Tesla going the same way. This collision was a sideswipe. AEB would not trigger because it is designed not to trigger for anything outside of the obvious case.


For example from the Model 3 manual


But the Police vehicle hit wasn't traveling in front. It was parked on the side of the road.

So collision in question was a Model S not a Model 3 will you see a difference if I pull from the other owners manual?



Hmm, traveling in front, not parked on the side of the road. I'm thinking the owners manuals all sing the same tune. Stopped vehicles don't get any consideration from AEB.

Automatic Emergency Braking

  1. Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
Side Collision Warning

  1. Warns the driver of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the car

Do I really need to dredge up the musk video of a car avoiding a front/side collision?
 
  • Like
Reactions: croman and Hota

Snowstorm

Active Member
Dec 8, 2016
1,490
1,407
Ontario Canada
I think that's the shot that makes the poor lane markings most obvious. Follow that solid white line on the right until you hit a car. That's what the road makers want isn't it?

Why are there parking spaces inside the turn lane with what looks like not enough space to pass the parked cars without crossing the solid white line left of the turn lane?

DeZAp9aVQAAwG3S.jpg

Wow, this road design is messed. Why are there cars parked on that right turn lane? This should be in the edge case catalog
 
  • Like
Reactions: wesley888

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,339
Knoxville, Tennessee
Automatic Emergency Braking

  1. Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
Side Collision Warning

  1. Warns the driver of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the car

Do I really need to dredge up the musk video of a car avoiding a front/side collision?

Do you have a video of AEB kicking in when confronted with a stopped vehicle (not TACC braking when following a car, but actual AEB followed by a collision)? You know AEB only reduces the speed of the collision it doesn't usually prevent one.

When Automatic Emergency Braking applies the brakes, the touchscreen displays a visual warning and sounds a chime. You may also notice abrupt downward movement of the brake pedal. The brake lights turn on to alert other road users that you are slowing down.

If driving 29 mph (46 km/h) or faster, the brakes are released after Automatic Emergency Braking has reduced your driving speed by 25 mph (40 km/h). For example, if Automatic Emergency Braking applies braking when driving 56 mph (90 km/h), it releases the brakes when your speed has been reduced to 31 mph (50 km/h).

Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h).

The brakes are released after Automatic Emergency Braking has reduced your driving speed by 25 mph and don't forget the key phrase from my prior quote. When a frontal collision is considered unavoidable. Not when the average customer would like it to kick in, just when it is considered unavoidable.

I'm sure the side collision warning kicked in but if the driver was inattentive and not holding the wheel what would they do in the half a second of beeping before the collision?
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: JohnnyG

gaswalla

Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery
Sep 23, 2012
3,382
3,725
San Diego
Tesla will soon be forced to limit autopilot activation to locations where it is intended.. Ie disallow activation on divided roads, when stop lights or signs are present, etc...
Folks are using AP on inappropriate roads and then AP gets blamed.... At the very least, pay attention in this situation
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdy0627 and liuping

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top