Laguna Beach, CA accident, title claims "autopilot" involved.

[AviP]

The inconsistency of standards in roads cannot be programmed effectively in any system, even with AI. If the software is optimistic, AEB will occur frequently causing the vehicle to be rear ended. If the software is pessmistic, accidents like the one above take place.

It's obvious from the photo that the road layout is flawed. And it's logical to assume that there are flaws like this all over the country. So I don't see how BetaPilot can improve given the tech it relies on. BetaPilot is a STUPID PRODUCT. I don't see the drivers who use it as tech savvy but rather as guinea pigs.

Be safe, leave the goddamn phone in your pocket or purse and put your hands on the wheel.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Do you have a video of AEB kicking in when confronted with a stopped vehicle (not TACC braking when following a car, but actual AEB followed by a collision)? You know AEB only reduces the speed of the collision it doesn't usually prevent one.


I'm sure the side collision warning kicked in but if the driver was inattentive and not holding the wheel what would they do in the half a second of beeping before the collision?

Perhaps they should rename it Sporadic Slowing Down instead of AEB

did you confirm your side collision information? Have a link?

 

[SDRick]

Pay attention and learn the limits of the technology in its current form.
AP is a fantastic product when used properly.

 

[whitex]

Wow. Yet another nimrod who is incapable of following simple instructions. I have 80,000 miles in an AP1 car, most of it with AP engaged and despite AP’s quirks I’ve followed the common sense instructions to stay in control of the vehicle. And guess what? I’ve never wrecked.

I have zero sympathy for someone who refuses to keep both hands on the wheel and stay prepared to take control at any time.

In the current implementation, with the very clear user instructions, there’s simply no such thing as an accident that’s autopilot’s fault. Period.

Exactly. As per instructions, you have to keep both hands on the wheel and both eyes on the road maintaining full situational awareness. If AP does anything dangerous, including but not limited to AP taking a sharp turn into oncoming traffic, YOU the driver are responsible to not letting it. If you are doing anything less, like letting yourself relax behind the wheel and are not ready to take over in a split second, you are taking your own risk and are responsible for all the results. There is a silver lining though, thanks to all those who pay less than full attention, AP as a program learns (whether from data collected or simply because of media pressure it gets more attention from coders) - without accidents there would be no learning.

 

[commasign]

Whenever a Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, or other car crashes, I'd like the media to report whether cruise control, lane keeping assist, road departure mitigation, and/or automatic emergency braking were on.

 

[X Fan]

AP1 should not be used in that road environment.........

 

[dhanson865]

Perhaps they should rename it Sporadic Slowing Down instead of AEB

did you confirm your side collision information? Have a link?

Model S owner manual is at https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf and says this regarding side collisions

In addition to the warnings previously described, Lane Assist may provide steering interventions if Model S drifts into (or close to) an adjacent lane in which an object, such as a vehicle, is detected. In these situations, Model S automatically steers to a safer position in its driving lane. This steering is applied only when Model S is traveling between 30 and 85 mph (48 and 140 km/h) on major roadways with clearly visible lane markings. When Lane Assist applies a steering intervention, the instrument panel briefly displays a warning message.

Warning: Steering interventions are minimal and are not designed to move Model S out of its driving lane. Do not rely on steering interventions to avoid side collisions.

Now that is the current manual, maybe the manual for an AP1 car says something else? The 2014 owners manual has no AP1 section and the 2018 owners manual is for AP 2.x.

All in all Autopilot will save you from some pretty stupid behavior and I'd like to have my current car replaced with a Model 3 right now. I'm positive any Tesla you give me (other than the pre 2012 roadster) would be safer than any car I own or have owned.

I just don't plan on testing it by intentionally replicating the situations we are discussing. I'll hope that AEB and side collision avoidance are forms of insurance I never have to collect on.

 

[EinSV]

According to the latest info on statista.com, there are 6.3 million car accidents per year resulting in injury, property damage or death in the U.S. alone. Topic: Road Accidents in the U.S.

That's 17,260 accidents per day.

An inattentive driver causing an accident is hardly news -- another 17,259 people without autopilot in the U.S. crashed their cars today.

I just had the latest of many very relaxing roadtrips where I used autopilot (AP1) the vast majority of the time. I paid attention and it worked great. At this stage, it is a wonderful system but not perfect. But neither is the typical driver I see on the road, many of whom are texting, putting on make-up, talking on their phone, weaving in and out of traffic or generally acting like idiots.

 

[chillaban]

Also from the manual:

WARNING: Autosteer is not designed to, and will not, steer Model S around objects partially or completely in the driving lane. Always watch the road in front of you and stay prepared to take appropriate action. It is the driver's responsibility to be in control of Model S at all times.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

You'd think by now people would get the hint that it can't detect stopped objects.

And, that they would get the hint that there name is going to be plastered all over the internet if they get into an accident with autopilot enabled.

What's really funny is a Seattle TV station doesn't have any information on the Model 3 crash that happened locally. The one that got hit by someone racing.

But, it does have the Laguna accident involving AP.

Tesla in Autopilot mode crashes into California police car

 

[EldestOyster]

footnote on page 9-3/4:

Do not taunt Autopilot.

 

[Ande]

"Why do these vehicles keep doing that?" Cota said. "We're just lucky that people aren't getting injured."

Should be:
Why do idiots keep repeating the same mistake ?
They are lucky the cars protect then that well, or else Darwinism would still help us out.

 

[thecloud]

Police Sgt Cota: "Why do these vehicles keep doing that?" Cota said. "We're just lucky that people aren't getting injured."

This quote is just depressing, because it perpetuates the false notion that the car (rather than driver inattention) is the cause of these accidents.

I was talking to a friend tonight as we were going out to our cars. When he realized I was getting into a Tesla, the first thing he asked was, "does your car have auto-driving? I've heard that's pretty dangerous." This is getting turned into common knowledge by all the negative coverage. Not "people are looking down at their phones and not watching the road" or "people are being stupid" but instead, just this: "autopilot causes accidents."

Now, I sincerely hope Tesla does not disable the autosteer feature, because that would just confirm the idea in everyone's mind that "oh, they had to turn it off because it was too dangerous." Unfortunately, it won't surprise me if some action is taken to nerf its usefulness.

Why do these drivers keep doing that?

 

[cwerdna]

Why do these drivers keep doing that?

Numerous reasons, such as:
- they didn't RTFM or didn't remember all the sections related to AP and its limitations. This is why I suggested a mandatory multi-part audio tutorial for each separate key fob before the driver is even allowed to activate AP. Perhaps there should be periodic refreshers or small tips (e.g. "did you know that AP cannot reliably detect stopped vehicles?" "did you know AP cannot read traffic lights?")
- the software is a moving target (updates all the time and some capabilities get better or worse)
- most of them don't participate actively Tesla forums like TMC, esp. in AP related threads to keep up w/the improvements, regressions, limitations, etc.
- it worked fine most of the time for them
- environment conditions (weather, lighting, road, road painting, etc.) change which can cause AP to misbehave or behave differently than expected
- they became bored or inattentive due to AP
- due to lack of attention/situational awareness, they are not able to context switch and provide the correct response to avoid the accident in time

 

[Barklikeadog]

This quote is just depressing, because it perpetuates the false notion that the car (rather than driver inattention) is the cause of these accidents.

I was talking to a friend tonight as we were going out to our cars. When he realized I was getting into a Tesla, the first thing he asked was, "does your car have auto-driving? I've heard that's pretty dangerous." This is getting turned into common knowledge by all the negative coverage. Not "people are looking down at their phones and not watching the road" or "people are being stupid" but instead, just this: "autopilot causes accidents."

Now, I sincerely hope Tesla does not disable the autosteer feature, because that would just confirm the idea in everyone's mind that "oh, they had to turn it off because it was too dangerous." Unfortunately, it won't surprise me if some action is taken to nerf its usefulness.

Why do these drivers keep doing that?

I'm sure we will find out all of the drivers unrelated personal driving habits soon as he is thrown under the bus just like his car.

Seriously... Musk loves and seeks media attention 24/7. You can't keep complaining that the very attention you seek is unfair when it is negative.

 

[deonb]

This quote is just depressing, because it perpetuates the false notion that the car (rather than driver inattention) is the cause of these accidents.

I was talking to a friend tonight as we were going out to our cars. When he realized I was getting into a Tesla, the first thing he asked was, "does your car have auto-driving? I've heard that's pretty dangerous." This is getting turned into common knowledge by all the negative coverage. Not "people are looking down at their phones and not watching the road" or "people are being stupid" but instead, just this: "autopilot causes accidents

Yip, it’s called the availability heuristic bias.

That’s also what causes people to be more scared of a small airplane crashing into their house than they are of having a heart attack.

 

[WarpedOne]

I started to look at AP usage as massive Darwin Awards competition...

 

[deonb]

In the absence of driving-facing camera to track whether or not the driver is looking forward, to avoid future easily preventable collisions and ugly headlines, Tesla should consider geofencing AP to divided highways as it instructs drivers.

This surely is frustrating.

Maybe Tesla should Geofence it by defaults to highways, and then make drivers take a written test where they have to e.g. write out the words: "I know AutoPilot does not stop for parked cars" a 100 times before the feature will be enabled on all roads again.

 

[daktari]

Drivers must keep eyes on road with AP.
But again, do you feel AP safe enough to enter a destination in navigation? To search for a playlist on Spotify?

I have mine in for service (again), and got a Ford Focus loaner! Wow, driving while adjusting mirrors, finding a new radiostation, connecting phone, using nav - I was certainly swerving all over. But with AP on, I can do these things pretty safely - I feel.

Should I stop!? Treat AP as a car with no lane assist?

 

[whitex]

Yip, it’s called the availability heuristic bias.

That’s also what causes people to be more scared of a small airplane crashing into their house than they are of having a heart attack.

Same reason why so many people I meet think my Tesla can drive itself while I sleep on back seat. All comes from media hypes like this:

In October 2016 he states it like it's there already, so people who don't have Teslas believe it. And other people who might know it wasn't there in 2016 think, it's 2018 already, he said it was just around the corner then, it must be here already.

Hype works both ways.