Laguna Beach, CA accident, title claims "autopilot" involved.

[bhzmark]

For those who don't click on the link, the road widened from a single lane into two: a through (left) lane and a right turn only lane in which parking (presumably only at certain times) is allowed. AP centered itself on the new right lane and clipped the left rear of the police Explorer parked at the curb.

Two complete failure of the driver:

1. Engaging AP in that environment.
2. Failing to look at the road ahead.

In the absence of driving-facing camera to track whether or not the driver is looking forward, to avoid future easily preventable collisions and ugly headlines, Tesla should consider geofencing AP to divided highways as it instructs drivers.

Can you separate your posts into two so that I can tag the first one helpful and disagree with the second one.

 

[cwerdna]

Same reason why so many people I meet think my Tesla can drive itself while I sleep on back seat. All comes from media hypes like this:
View attachment 304827

In October 2016 he states it like it's there already, so people who don't have Teslas believe it. And other people who might know it wasn't there in 2016 think, it's 2018 already, he said it was just around the corner then, it must be here already.

Hype works both ways.

And, it doesn't help when sales critters lie and/or overstate the the capabilities of "FSD" like at Ordered an X. Declined FSD. Is this a mistake?.

Or, when this video was released Oct 19, 2016: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware.

And, the hype has led to comical and frustrating survey results like Tesla Is Most Trusted Brand For Self-Driving, Autonomous Cars. Grrr...

 

[deonb]

Same reason why so many people I meet think my Tesla can drive itself while I sleep on back seat.

I don't disagree with that.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Same reason why so many people I meet think my Tesla can drive itself while I sleep on back seat.

Hype works both ways.

You mean when the CEO states that the car will be so safe in 2019 that you could sleep in it?

 

[SageBrush]

The road design there is very special. I could totally see my car following the line and side swiping if I wasn’t paying attention

That road is not appropriate for AP, but I think the accident shows that AP1 does not know (or does not react) when there is inadequate clearance.

 

[McRat]

...

And, the hype has led to comical and frustrating survey results like Tesla Is Most Trusted Brand For Self-Driving, Autonomous Cars. Grrr...

Marketing creates it's own reality, and the media is now into marketing more than before. This is not a good thing.

When asked to name an EV, most Americans respond with Prius. We have been saturated by Toyota's efforts to represent the Prius as an EV for nearly 2 decades. They appear on TV shows, always as the good guys, never with an engine sound, and able to refuel with solar panels in one TV show. The public now knows that EVs are goofy looking, small, econoboxes, with poor performance because EVs are Priuses.

Tesla started representing AP as an autonomous system able to follow roads without a mistake right from the start. So now that's what is expected of it, and like the Prius, the illusion may do more harm than good.

 

[SageBrush]

Warning: Steering interventions are minimal and are not designed to move Model S out of its driving lane. Do not rely on steering interventions to avoid side collisions.

This is the critical point. AP will stay in lane. Only the driver can decide to swerve out of the current lane.
And FWIW, I see cars swerve all the time when they do not know if it is safe to do so. Sometimes it results in horrendous multi-car collisions.

A more general insight is that like people, the AP1 implementation in Model S has most of its capabilities forward looking. Unlike people, it does not swerve and hope for the best.

 

[Kant.Ing]

This surely is frustrating.

Maybe Tesla should Geofence it by defaults to highways, and then make drivers take a written test where they have to e.g. write out the words: "I know AutoPilot does not stop for parked cars" a 100 times before the feature will be enabled on all roads again.

Or start sending the driver (of the car at fault) to community service or highway sweeping. This includes all kinds of cars, and driver assist or not.

 

[Driver Dave]

As always, at the end of the day, this is driver error. Driver is always in control and responsible no matter what drivers aids are engaged.

But cases like this really do point out how poorly designed and maintained some areas of our roads are.

I mean, who puts parking on a narrow exit ramp with a line the leads to the parked cars and just to make sure you don't miss them, an arrow that points to right at them???

 

[SageBrush]

People treat AP like a driver replacement. It is NOT
It is a driver assist.

AP > Driver ?
Maybe

AP + Driver > Driver ?
Definitely

AP + Driver > AP ?
Definitely

 

[Barklikeadog]

People treat AP like a driver replacement. It is NOT
It is a driver assist.

AP > Driver ?
Maybe

AP + Driver > Driver ?
Definitely

AP + Driver > AP ?
Definitely

This won't be a discussion for much longer, by 2019 FSD will be here for Tesla owners. You could sleep in the car or have the car autonomously go on ride sharing missions while you sleep at home.

 

[bhzmark]

These 11 Vehicles Had No Driver Deaths



I won't buy a gas or diesel car no matter how safe it is. I have no interest in a Pickup truck, SUV, or otherwise off road oriented vehicle.

Tesla is plenty safe enough for me, way safer than a Leaf or Prius.

The time frame is

"IIHS based the new driver death rates on fatalities that occurred from 2012 to 2015. The organization looked at 2014 models, as well as equivalent models from 2012, 2013 and 2015, in calculating the driver death rates."

When was Teslas first death?

 

[AviP]

At this stage, it is a wonderful system but not perfect. But neither is the typical driver I see on the road, many of whom are texting, putting on make-up, talking on their phone, weaving in and out of traffic or generally acting like idiots.

I'm glad you agree that it is not perfect. That is why I call it BetaPilot. But as you stated, the typical driver is distracted and giving them an aid will let them be even more distracted. So for all those imperfect situations, we could have more bad drivers in the making.

I just wish iOS and Android come up with a solution to prevent handheld phone usage while the car is in motion. But that's for another thread.

 

[SageBrush]

I just wish iOS and Android come up with a solution to prevent handheld phone usage while the car is in motion.

Amen to that

 

[bro1999]

Tesla statement:
“When using Autopilot, drivers are continuously reminded of their responsibility to keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of the vehicle at all times. Tesla has always been clear that Autopilot doesn’t make the car impervious to all accidents, and before a driver can use Autopilot, they must accept a dialogue box which states that ‘Autopilot is designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings.’”

If it's "designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings", why the hell do you not geofence it to only work in the aforementioned areas??? Why allow stupid people to use it on side roads and inevitably crash into things?

 

[Barklikeadog]

Amen to that

I don't understand why this auto tech isn't utilized. I was behind some woman in an E-class this morning... holding the phone
to her head talking. Why isn't the phone connected to her car? I have an F150 and I can voice command make calls, read
texts, send texts....

At this point(with any car made in the last few years) the only outlier should be web surfing on the phone.

 

[arcus]

Autopilot is designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings.’

Exactly this. RTFM people...

 

[AviP]

As always, at the end of the day, this is driver error. Driver is always in control and responsible no matter what drivers aids are engaged.

But cases like this really do point out how poorly designed and maintained some areas of our roads are.

I mean, who puts parking on a narrow exit ramp with a line the leads to the parked cars and just to make sure you don't miss them, an arrow that points to right at them???

+1

I just wish our paid government agencies come up with standard for traffic lights, lanes, etc that cater to the autonomous vehicles. As a simple example, there are probably over 10 ways that left turn lights are represented. Here's some of them.

The green arrow below the solid green.

The green arrow to the left of the solid green.

The basic green light without a green arrow.

The independent left turn green arrow.

This one is classic. Why? Isn't that the same as a basic green light.

Again why? Isn't solid green always a left turn yield on green.

The list can go on and on. And that is just for a specific left turn traffic light. Factoring complex intersections where roads meet at acute angles or more than 4-way intersections, and there needs to be a lot more in terms of standards. Eventually, I think V2V is the safest and correct approach to prevent accidents.

 

[McRat]

You need to either accept this crash risk, or do not use the product.

AEB, FCW, LDW, and corrective blindspot tech are safety features. Autosteering without aggressive FCW (Forward Collision Warning) is going to produce a steady stream of crashes.

People don't watch the road in cars with no autosteering. Autosteering just makes it easier/safer to ignore the road for longer durations. But the way humans are, it's not hard to understand why these crashes occur.

 

[arcus]

People don't watch the road in cars with no autosteering. Autosteering just makes it easier/safer to ignore the road for longer durations. But the way humans are, it's not hard to understand why these crashes occur.

Case in point, I was behind a pickup truck in the left lane on my commute this morning. Construction zone, concrete barrier on both sides of winding stretch of the freeway. The guy almost hit the concrete to his left, probably looking down to his phone. When did paying attention while operating a vehicle became a secondary task?