bwilson4web
hit the spot
It was not an option when I ordered my Standard Range Model 3. Do you have a screen showing it could be ordered for my Model 3?
Bob Wilson
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"Lane Keep Assist" - Telsa vs. Subaru Eyesight (My experience)
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
Bob Wilson
PhantmMenace
Member
Always use blinkers, however, as a longtime BMW owner I may lack practice
Perhaps my lane change issue stems from signalling and changing lanes concurrently.
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Wingsy
Member
Oh yeah? I'd like to invite you to drive my M3 for a few miles. I hope you don't get seasick easily because you'd be in for a gentle rocking back and forth as you meander down the highway. Now it doesn't do this all the time...I'm guessing 20% or so. When it gets in this mode it's annoying to me and to my passenger.
I've seen this in my M3 as well. Sometimes it's fairly locked in but sometimes it sways slightly side to side. It's never gotten to the point of making me nauseous but it's certainly annoying!
Yesterday, AP scared me nearly to death. I was using it on a 40mph road and the M3 suddenly veered left, straight at an oncoming red pickup truck. Thankfully, my hands were on the wheel and I was able to break AP's gripe and pull it back into the correct lane. There was a short stretch of the road where the centerline was missing/worn away, etc., but shouldn't the AP had just shut off it was confused, rather than careening left looking for the damn line? From a practicality (vs. more gimmicky than reliable) perspective, every day I'm more and more comfortable with the "less capable," but waaaaaaay more mature, Subaru Eyesight system. Tesla's tech in this area still has a long way to go, until I will ever feel comfortable behind the AP controlled wheel. I will see if I can find the dashcam video to post here later. That should be a "Eye" opener for you all.
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Was this also in a spot where the road was veering slightly left by chance?
Autopilot has a horrible habit of pulling to the left in these scenarios. It mistakes the left lane marker as the right lane marker when that lane marker lines up with the left third of your car's hood (after lane lines disappear only).
Yes and no. There was a fork in the road with a "not well marked" road branching to the left. The well marked road I was on goes straight. AP decided it rather would prefer exploring the "not well marked" road branching off to the left. I should add that I have used AP on this road with no problem in the past, so it's "hit or miss" with AP, on the same road. It never seemed confused when there wasn't oncoming traffic. The red pickup, BTW was not coming from that "not well marked" road on the left, but rather straight on from the well marked road I was on. AP ignored this, meaning not even the anti-collision system worked in this case. I'm really regretting putting out the $6000 for FSD, not because it won't work someday, but because today not even the released stuff works reliably/safely... Had I not been paying attention, this would have been a head on collision at 45 mph. No doubt.
EDIT: Just pulled the USB and low-and-behold, TeslaCam stopped recording anything two days ago. Add that to the growing list of "more gimmicky than works reliably" list. Pictures attached. I should also point out that the 256gb USB is less than 20% full. Are my going to get rid of or hate my Tesla, no, of course not - But know there is a reason why Tesla labels some released features as BETA and why they require driver engagement when using automated systems! They are not kidding!!!
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willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Can we say TM3 or Model 3 instead of M3? I literally cannot tell whether you guys are talking about BMW or Tesla's, especially considering this thread is about comparing other lane keep implementations.
JasonR67
Member
One of our cars is a 2017 Outback. I absolutely LOVE the safety and convenience features of this car. if there offered an electric version with 300 mi range I'd be buying that instead of the m3p- I pick up Wednesday.
Keeping in mind I am talking about the 2017 version of eye sight. It's lane assist is meant to keep you from crossing lanes accidentally.. It does not keep you in the middle of the lane.. it nudges you from hitting the edges of the lane.. if you relied on it you would be zig zagging your way down the rd.. It's like an invisible fence for your dog. it won't keep your dog in the middle of your yard, but if he strays out of your yard he'll know it.
it only tries to see lane markers and does an "ok" job of it. It doesn't care about cross roads, or other non-lane markers. I turn it on the same time I turn on adaptive cruise control (any divided street).
I didn't chime in earlier because I haven't actually driven a model 3 yet. So I can't compare.. Im my mind thought AP is way more useful.
@JasonR67 - In the 2018 rendition of Eyesight, the default for Lane Assist is "On" (was "OFF" in the 2017); and when used with cruise control (over 37 mph; was over 40 mph in the 2017), it keeps you perfectly centered in lane - on just about any road (unlike AP). Re AP, I "bought" into the entire hype (paid an extra $6000 for FSD as well) and feel what is currently released is nothing more than a gimmick/conversation piece "impress" your party guests - same for current rendition of "Summon" (it's slow, works 50% and is very limited) - like those talking emoticons released with Apple's iOS 12 and iPhone X (you use them a few times, make people laugh, and then it's done). On freeways, AP is more functional/ready, but still doesn't give you comfort (safety) that it won't screw up as many here have reported happening (whether real or made up). I'm hopeful, someday soon, reality catches up with the hyperbole. At the moment, the Subaru system, while limited, doesn't have me "white-knucked" behind the wheel like the Tesla one does. In time....
EDIT: When you've driven your M3 for say, a few weeks, and have gotten used to everything (and got past that "talking emoticon-like high"), please return here and share your thoughts, re Tesla's "Lane Assist" practicality vs. Subaru's. Would also appreciate your thoughts, separately, on Tesla's AP/FSD features (which Subaru doesn't offer). How safe do you feel?
Hmmm. You YMMV I guess depending on roads. Up here in the pacific northwest we have the LDA turned on and have been thru highways, rural and urban and have not been ping ponging. Haven’t used Suburu so it’s probably better. Only Toyota and Chevy Bolt.
Also fwiw same with EAP it does false but on 2019.20.4.2 I’m surprised how little. With Lane change on and on our last 1,200 mile rounds trip we had one phantom braking event. And has zero lane crossings that that so many discuss. Same was the with the Model X that we had with us on 2019.20.4.3 where we had zero falling even in formally tough areas like Tacoma traffic.
So far have not had any LDA crossing events but only driven probably 2K so far on the M3 most of it in that road trip. MX a little less.
For the Bolt, their LDA is very very mild so the nudge is nearly imperceptible. For Toyota very mild and not really centering. But again I think YMMV. Both seem set to avoid false positives. (Eg to oversteer when it shouldn’t, which is the way if you build something to never get updated you would want. If u steer into a car you have more liability than if u dont).
<geek> Final geeky speculation is that the lane keeping and changing is not according to Autonomy Day presentations, super magically. It is hand coded and tuned code so subject to lots of tweaks (like the splining on lane change). Same with what lane to follow. The neural network vision system in the end just generates probabilities on lanes and object location so it’s up to the control layer to decide by hand where to set the LDA activation. Please ignore this if not a tech geek last of not a geek </geek>
Also fwiw same with EAP it does false but on 2019.20.4.2 I’m surprised how little. With Lane change on and on our last 1,200 mile rounds trip we had one phantom braking event. And has zero lane crossings that that so many discuss. Same was the with the Model X that we had with us on 2019.20.4.3 where we had zero falling even in formally tough areas like Tacoma traffic.
So far have not had any LDA crossing events but only driven probably 2K so far on the M3 most of it in that road trip. MX a little less.
For the Bolt, their LDA is very very mild so the nudge is nearly imperceptible. For Toyota very mild and not really centering. But again I think YMMV. Both seem set to avoid false positives. (Eg to oversteer when it shouldn’t, which is the way if you build something to never get updated you would want. If u steer into a car you have more liability than if u dont).
<geek> Final geeky speculation is that the lane keeping and changing is not according to Autonomy Day presentations, super magically. It is hand coded and tuned code so subject to lots of tweaks (like the splining on lane change). Same with what lane to follow. The neural network vision system in the end just generates probabilities on lanes and object location so it’s up to the control layer to decide by hand where to set the LDA activation. Please ignore this if not a tech geek last of not a geek
</geek>
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Hello, fellow Seattleite. I don't think the ping-pong comment was related to Tesla's LDA, but rather Subaru's (which is true). The OP's (me) point was that the Telsa rendition of LDA rarely works at all on the same non-highway roads that the Subaru's does. And, to be clear, I'm not talking about how Tesla's works when you are in AP self driving mode - just the "I'm driving myself and I want my car to stay in it's lane in case I wonder left or right for some distraction related reason...."
PhantmMenace
Member
Always use blinkers, however, as a longtime BMW owner I may lack practice
Perhaps my lane change issue stems from signalling and changing lanes concurrently.
Figured out why I am struggling with LDA. When I drive and am about to change lanes I usually do the one tap which gives us 3 signals, this is what BMW's do by default. Using the one tap signal is not enough to disengage LDA but using a full signal where you feel the detent when pulling up or down disengages LDA when changing lanes. Problem solved.
Always use blinkers, however, as a longtime BMW owner I may lack practice
Perhaps my lane change issue stems from signalling and changing lanes concurrently.
Haha. I am still a very proud BMW owner in addition to the 3LR. I am religious about using blinkers even in the middle of the night with no other cars in the road. I also make sure to signal before I begin the maneuver. For as long as I remember, my dad does the "legalistic" one-blink courtesy signal AFTER he is halfway through the transition. Never made sense to me and probably contributed to my extreme sense of duty to signal early, BMW or not. LOL
I do relate to the one-tap/three-blink as that is how I primarily use it when doing a quick lane change on both BMW and 3LR. Good info on needing to do a full semi-permanent signal to disengage LDA.
All this being said, I turned off the warning (chime or vibrate) from the very beginning as I don't find it useful and quite annoying, in fact.
For the same reason, I never turned on LDA when that was released. ELDA is on by default and I don't disable it.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
It's the same thing the car does when a lane divides into two lanes or when two lanes merge into one. One of the lines immediately disappears, so the car swerves to either the right or left in order to center the car between the two WIDE lane markers it can now see (on ramps and off ramps). In my opinion, the AP system needs to have some sort of intelligent "memory" of the road it is on so that when lane lines suddenly disappear, it can make a more intelligent decision as to what to do. In most cases this would simply be to follow the one constant lane marker, maintaining the same distance from it as it had been before the second lane marker disappeared.
I don't have a Model 3, but I did have a P85D and currently have an Outback 3.6R with Eyesight. For keeping in a lane, the Subaru system was a much better system (I have no idea how the Model 3 may be better than the Model S's system). In fact, for my uses the Subaru system is better than Tesla's autopilot, since I don't like handing over steering, braking, etc. to the car and Eyesight does exactly what I want...work in the background to keep me safe on the off chance I'm not paying attention. But as an autonomous-type system, it's not even close to Autopilot, if that's what you're looking for.
I've got model 3 with AP. Recently rented 2018 Subaru with lane keep assist for 2 days. Drove on same highways where I drive my 3 regularly. My AP style is hold onto wheel with light touch so I don't get nagged and I can take over in a flash, but the car is basically steering. The Tesla stays in its lane and does a minimum of "ping ponging" back and forth. It is bad where there is a merge lane... interprets as a wider lane and moves to the "middle". But the Subaru was bad everywhere. Never felt straight, always wandering in the lane. I remember early Tesla AP2 being pretty similar, but it has improved a LOT.
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