Latest Price Drop Discussion

[Camera-Cruiser]

there is ALWAYS going to be someone who paid 10K less for his car? I don't think so. This is deplorable and future customers will be well aware from now on. Wait ti'll MB or BMW enter the EV market full speed ahead those who got burn by Tesla will remember. You will never see thing like that with Lexus...

Way back on page 2 of this never ending thread, I posted:

Car prices can and do fluctuate by thousands daily. Manufacturers do this via their dealers often dropping prices $5k or more. Right now (July 2019) take $8K of an Escalade, I'd say that was premium vehicle - More $$ than a P3D. I just googled best new car deals July 2019 to find this. And, let's not forget Acura's $20,000 price drop on their NSX, below too:

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cadillac/escalade/prices

All July 2019 deals listed here:
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals
($6,000 back on Nissan Murano)
and this is just the open to the public published stuff.

And, let's not forget Acura's $20,000 price drop on their NSX:
2019 Acura NSX gets $20,000 discount after slow 2018 sales

and here's Autoblog's list of July 2019 deals (it's a slide show so you have to click through it) $10K off Nissan Titan, $6K-9K off Chevy Bolt's, etc

The Best New Car Deals: July 2019

Someone will always come along and pay more for what you just bought, and someone will pay less - often by huge orders of magnitude. It really comes down to what you or anyone else is willing to pay at that moment. Airfare, concert tickets, airstream trailers, TVs, Blueray players (people paid thousands for those), or pet rocks (also a thing in the 70's).

People. We are weird.

 

[Daniel in SD]

They prob vary within a reasonable range. Less than $5,000 (average). Just a guess though.

Going the day a new model is released and then going a year later is a more accurate scenario.

 

[Sutton 3P]

I am not only a 'Tesla never again', I actively promote 'don't buy Tesla' to other people. 2020 and 2021 will see the intro of other makers into the long range EV foray. Wait a year or two when choices will provide better alternatives, or at the very least, will force Tesla to change the way the treat customers.

I'm pretty much there too. I think Tesla has way over-estimated their uniqueness. Of course they are unique now, which comes down to their one differentiating technology - the battery. Once other companies can produce batteries with similar energy density and production costs, all the magic of an electric car is easily replicated. It seems Tesla had ambitions to be the Apple of cars but after burning the brand to the ground over the past year there is no chance they can occupy that space.

For all these people who feel compelled to write a diatribe about how ignorant and foolish I am to complain about MRSP dropping $10k overnight: maybe there's a reason you spend so much of your time on this activity and maybe just perhaps you doth protest too much? Whatever the case, your twisted logic about the car being a computer (if you said a battery, that I could buy) and attempted zen koans about contentment in being screwed are not compelling.

 

[Nocturnal]

Not being a jerk but if you are bothered by price changes you should sell your car right now. This will keep happening.

I'm pretty much there too. I think Tesla has way over-estimated their uniqueness. Of course they are unique now, which comes down to their one differentiating technology - the battery. Once other companies can produce batteries with similar energy density and production costs, all the magic of an electric car is easily replicated. It seems Tesla had ambitions to be the Apple of cars but after burning the brand to the ground over the past year there is no chance they can occupy that space.

For all these people who feel compelled to write a diatribe about how ignorant and foolish I am to complain about MRSP dropping $10k overnight: maybe there's a reason you spend so much of your time on this activity and maybe just perhaps you doth protest too much? Whatever the case, your twisted logic about the car being a computer (if you said a battery, that I could buy) and attempted zen koans about contentment in being screwed are not compelling.

10k overnight? What? lol

You paid 72500 in January? I'm going to need proof because I paid 71,500 for mine in August and that was before the PUP price drop and before the price drop after 2018 ended.

 

[Sutton 3P]

Not being a jerk but if you are bothered by price changes you should sell your car right now. This will keep happening.

You know, if you have to say it... Try bringing this attitude into the real world. Maybe go and ridicule your friends who went underwater on their mortgage after the 2008 crash. Explain to the them that prices change and that you don't complain that your old TV isn't worth much anymore. Why should they be so stupid to complain about predatory mortgage lending? They should have known that prices change, am I right?

 

[Nocturnal]

Just putting down some real numbers to combat the ridiculous hyperbole.

I paid 71,500 for my car last august, before fees. That means I could receive an 7500 tax credit.

Exact same car is 56,990, a year later. Tax credit is now $1875. This car also includes basic autopilot that mine did not. I paid 7k for EAP after the fact. Basic AP is valued at what, 2k?

So I paid 71,500 - 5000 (PUP refund) - 7500 = 59,000.
Now I would pay 56,990 - 2k (ap adjustment) - 1875 = 53,115.

This is a net price change of under $6k, for buying the same exact car. But do go on with the complaints of losing 10k overnight. Then go ahead and forget about all the free new features you have received since delivery, features that you would NEVER receive, and certainly not for free, if you make good on your silly claims that you will go buy a stupid Lexus.

You know, if you have to say it... Try bringing this attitude into the real world. Maybe go and ridicule your friends who went underwater on their mortgage after the 2008 crash. Explain to the them that prices change and that you don't complain that you old TV isn't worth much anymore. Why should they be so stupid to complain about predatory mortgage lending? They should have known that prices change, am I right?

What? More like "the housing market is still going down so if that is something you can't handle you should rent". I still want proof of your claim that you paid 72,500 in January. Kind seems like you are just making stuff up.

Predatory? Wow man, that's nuts.

On what $200k cars?

Thinking about selling mine before price drops put me farther into the hole. Just go back to an ice for now, because at least it won't drop the price of another vehicle in months. I know the price drops can't continue right? heard that one before!

maybe things will stabilize eventually... Nearly 30% drop in less that 8 months is hard to swallow for a major purchase (this isn't a rebate or fire sale) but I know most people in the forum don't care. For me it was a real big purchase, perhaps Tesla ownership just isn't for me. Yes I know cars depreciate, but this is just insaine!

I'm not really going to sell it, but seriously wtf. Death by paper cuts.

Go buy any car and check again in 6 months. The price will have dropped dramatically. You are lying if you think otherwise. ​

 

[Bernesto]

Like others here, I just took a $1,500 hit with the color change on a new P3D+. That said, people are blowing these price drops out of proportion. And here is why...

1. Owners first need to first look at the big picture total cost of ownership, and then compare their vehicle to similar vehicles. TCO takes into account real and artificial depreciation. Real, being mileage, market demand, and availability. Artificial being MFG rebates, product price drops, etc. Then maintenance, fuel, etc. For the purposes of this argument, let's compare Tesla cars to their biggest rivals. In the case of the Model 3, it's the BMW 3 series, the Model S is the Mercedes S class, the Model X the Land Rover Range Rover.
   
   Tesla and its rivals all lose about 20% the first year. They are luxury vehicles being driven off the lot after all. But long term, that's where things change:
   1. BMW: BMW Depreciation
      
   2. Mercedes: Mercedes-Benz Depreciation
      
   3. Land Rover: Land Rover Depreciation
      
   4. Tesla: Tesla Depreciation
2. By 5 years, Teslas level off and stop depreciating, or even have appreciate slightly, and by 7 years, the rivals are worth 30-35% vs. Tesla still holding steady at ~48%.
3. That differential at 7 years works out to be about $13,500 retained on a $75k Tesla vs. the same rivals...

That said, I have a friend, who bought the first 2018 Model 3 single motor LR in our state. He paid $57k for that 'privilege'. A dual motor 2019 LR with tax is now $47,990, a $9,010 drop in just a year, before depreciation. And, the new one has dual motors, which may be a pro or con depending on how you look at it, since the single motor LR has greater range and is unavailable now... Scarcity may be good. In 7 years, he should still be $4,500 ahead of if he had bought the BMW 3 series (given that the price of new cars doesn't drop $4,500 more).

This isn't to defend Elon and his twitter based price updates. These are damaging long term to Tesla. Honda and Toyota typically do not offer rebates on their most popular models due to their residual value damage to their customers, and the brand damage that causes. Tesla has great loyalty, but not untarnished. Notice I am not comparing Tesla to them, as a Prius or a hybrid Accord are not comparable vehicles. The aforementioned luxury brands are though, and all have steep depreciation due to rebates used to move their cars, super high maintenance costs, and reliability issues. It is still left to be seen, but aside from volume based price adjustments of a fledgling car company, Tesla TCO should be low, and predictable.

Side note: Back in the day, I owned a Mercedes ML430 and by 4 years and 40,000 miles I had already put $8,500 into maintenance. (Tires: $1,500, 20k pads and rotors: $2,000, 40k pads and rotors: $2,000, faulty catalytic converters: $2,500). And yes, you have to do rotors with pads every 20k miles, soft metal, by design... It's a Mercedes! By contrast, a Tesla Model 3 has an estimated 100k brake cycle due to regenerative braking, and no ICE parts.... Aside from tires, there's not much to do.

 

[Nocturnal]

That said, I have a friend, who bought the first 2018 Model 3 single motor LR in our state. He paid $57k for that 'privilege'. A dual motor 2019 LR with tax is now $47,990, a $9,010 drop in just a year, before depreciation. And, the new one has dual motors, which may be a pro or con depending on how you look at it, since the single motor LR has greater range and is unavailable now... Scarcity may be good. In 7 years, he should still be $4,500 ahead of if he had bought the BMW 3 series (given that the price of new cars doesn't drop $4,500 more).o.

And you are ignoring the full tax credit he received. That takes a big chunk out of that 9k. The net is 5600.

 

[Bernesto]

And you are ignoring the full tax credit he received. That takes a big chunk out of that 9k. The net is 5600.

TRUE!!! I did miss that. Further savings!

 

[Sutton 3P]

Owners first need to first look at the big picture total cost of ownership

Yes, I did this very carefully before buying. I needed a car for a 3 year period, getting ~20k miles/year. I looked historical depreciation for Teslas as well as other brands that tend to maintain a low depreciation. I set a reasonable min and max depreciation level over this period. None of this helps with a $10k reduction in MSRP. Let's walk through this:

I'll assume 40% deprecation over the 3 years, which is high for a Tesla. That deprecation will be on the new MSRP and not the one I paid. So My car costs ~$61k today, with FSD. Depreciate it and you have $36.6k resale. I paid $72k, so the effective depreciation for me is not 40% but 50%.
Now assume a Tesla fanboy depreciation of 30% over 3 years. My effective depreciation will 41%.

Does this additional $3.3k/year loss affect my living of standard? No. Does it make me hate Tesla for swindling me with false claims about price stability (as well as price increases for FSD)? Yes. ...and those claims are only the tip of the iceberg in the stream of constant misrepresentations from Tesla (ie. Musk).

 

[jgs]

Does it make me hate Tesla for swindling me with false claims about price stability

I'm genuinely curious where they're making these claims? I'm familiar with the "price is the price, there is no haggling" pitch. But prior to diving into this thread I hadn't been aware there was a belief that the price was additionally going to be "stable", whatever that means, much less that the company was promising it.

 

[WarpedOne]

Car dealers are supposed to be sleazy and lying SoBs.. now this image is on the Tesla brand and its CEO.
Nice work Elon...

"price is the price, there is no haggling"

There might be no haggling, but what is there is even worse, it's outright lying and extortion.
I accepted the price of 57k EUR. The Tesla upped this price for 1800 EUR one day before delivery on the explanation of my wrong nationality.
After I payed it, my previous VIN suddenly was not available any more (overnight) and there was only one other available for 1070 EUR more (tow hook) that could be delivered immediately or I wait 3 more weeks for ship to arrive.
After this payment they find out this second vehicle is defective I mustwait on the parts for 10 days at least.

In my current "final invoice" now I also find another 'unpaid' amount of 800 EUR for direct delivery.

Tesla raised the published 'nohaggling' price from 57050 to 60750 EUR, they already have my 59950 EUR and stilll demand 800 more. DS is not responding to my emails nor calls.

I'd much prefer haggling and walking out the door on such sleazy behavior.

 

[Southpasfan]

Not sure what to make of this. I sort of view Teslas as computers. They are not regular ICE cars which do nothing but go down in value and cost more to maintain. However, 2022 Teslas will probably all have 400 mile range, for example, so it will make my 2019 Model 3 LR Rwd with 325 "feel" less.

But by 2022 I will have three years of driving it.

The real complaint here is that Tesla is innovating at such a rate that they can sell the same features for less money six months later. I don't know if I "expect it" but since none of us have a crystal ball you can only make the decision you make when you make it.

I am old enough to remember when the new, fast computer always cost $3k, but you knew in a year you could get the same one for $1.8k. Everybody bought the $3k ones anyway.

Other than the Volkswagen push coming in 2 to 3 years, no other company is doing anything but dabbling in EVs. So if anyone wants VW pricing circle back in 2022.

 

[Bernesto]

Yes, I did this very carefully before buying. I needed a car for a 3 year period, getting ~20k miles/year. I looked historical depreciation for Teslas as well as other brands that tend to maintain a low depreciation. I set a reasonable min and max depreciation level over this period. None of this helps with a $10k reduction in MSRP. Let's walk through this:

I'll assume 40% deprecation over the 3 years, which is high for a Tesla. That deprecation will be on the new MSRP and not the one I paid. So My car costs ~$61k today, with FSD. Depreciate it and you have $36.6k resale. I paid $72k, so the effective depreciation for me is not 40% but 50%.
Now assume a Tesla fanboy depreciation of 30% over 3 years. My effective depreciation will 41%.

Does this addition $3.3k/year loss affect my living of standard? No. Does it make me hate Tesla for swindling me with false claims about price stability (as well as price increases for FSD)? Yes.

And... Had you bought a comparable car? Do you think you'd be money ahead? I think not.

Don't hate Tesla for depreciation, hate them if you want for false statements or missed expectations if you must.

I personally looked at value derived from the purchase vs. other options. I could have purchased a Porsche Cayman for about the same money. To me, the FSD and NOA features feel free, and depreciation is about on par minus the politics...

 

[Sutton 3P]

I'm genuinely curious where they're making these claims? I'm familiar with the "price is the price, there is no haggling" pitch. But prior to diving into this thread I hadn't been aware there was a belief that the price was additionally going to be "stable", whatever that means, much less that the company was promising it.

The claim that FSD would only increase in price, was actually written explicitly on the order page and tweeted by Elon (multiple times at this point I believe). Elon also claimed there would be no further price drops after this year's first set of drops. Moreover, they've been constantly hustling people to get in on the tax credit before it is reduced. Now we find out that we weren't getting in on anything and they were harvesting like 200% of the credit value. It's a very sleezly way to operate ...and like I said this is just one area of dishonestly. There is much more beyond that - "funding secured", no glass roof on base models, "appreciating asset", early FSD buyers get in Early Access program, etc etc.

 

[Sutton 3P]

And... Had you bought a comparable car? Do you think you'd be money ahead? I think not.

Don't hate Tesla for depreciation, hate them if you want for false statements or missed expectations if you must.

It's a far point. If I had bought another $70k car real depreciation would be similar, which is why I wouldn't have. Despite buying the performance model I'm not really a car guy. It doesn't factor very highly in my life above having safe transportation. I know how to put money to use and I hate to put it in a car, but I'm big on the electric vision, I really like Tesla's products and I can afford it so I went ahead. Now I'm just calling out the fact that Tesla is another scummy car company and much much worse in terms of customer service than the big brands. It's a major disappointment and I also hate getting swindled.

Then I made the mistake of complaining here and got a barrage of hate from the rabid fanboys. So now I'm just following this thread with morbid curiosity about the cultish nature of Tesla fans.

 

[jgs]

However, 2022 Teslas will probably all have 400 mile range, for example, so it will make my 2019 Model 3 LR Rwd with 325 "feel" less.

I guess it's highly dependent on individual psychology, but I can say from experience that having my wife's LR Model 3 parked next to my S85D, doesn't make my car "feel" less to me.

The claim that FSD would only increase in price, was actually written explicitly on the order page and tweeted by Elon (multiple times at this point I believe). Elon also claimed there would be no further price drops after this year's first set of drops.

OK, thanks. (The other stuff isn't relevant to the "stable price" thing so I'll just leave it there.)

Then I made the mistake of complaining here and got a barrage of hate from the rabid fanboys. So now I'm just following this thread with morbid curiosity about the cultish nature of Tesla fans.

I've read much of the thread and don't see a lot of hate, kind of a mix of agreement, polite disagreement, and some rude disagreement (which is short of "hate"). Of course, calling people "rabid fanboys" isn't really a way to engage in a civil discourse. I'm sorry for your experience, not only did you suffer the harm of having the price dropped from under you, but the indignity of not having your umbrage validated by your fellow owners. It's a hard life sometimes.

 

[liquid_celica]

I'm sorta amazed at the people in here. Rich enough to buy a tesla. Smart enough to own an EV. Lacks the intelligence to understand basic economic principle. Market price : where the good is perceived a value to the consumer. If you bought it back when it was $10k higher, you thought it was a fair price. If it drops, well you over paid but YOU decided that long before the price drop. I bought my model 3 (refuse to use M3) Long Range Red at $57k after tax before incentives with a net $47k after. It was i knew to be a good deal then. It's still a good deal now.

 

[DrEvil]

...and you do know that's how things work at every company ever (also the term for it is not supply and demand, but economies of scale)? I guess you think Apple should charge a million dollars a piece for the first few hundred iPhones of each new model and then decrease the price as production scales up until they cost a couple hundred at the end of the year?

My LG G7 phones was a brand new model last year and cost $799 plus tax at release. Less than 10 months later it can purchased for $300 plus tax - effectively 3/8th the price with no real improvement in the OS other than security fixes.

If we extrapolate the price of the screen in the Model X to the same pricing model based on pixel area I should lose about $4500 just from the Model X screen. My Model X is less than 10 months old but I can currently buy a 100D (Long Range) with the Raven upgrade for the price I paid for my 75D.

OP either needs to go back to avoiding technology and live with flip phones and high tech cars or just accept the fact that Tesla makes a lot more than just "cars". While I don't worship Elon I feel much more comfortable with him running Tesla than one the Big 3 CEOs - or have you forgotten how Mary Barra tried to at point say that GM was not financially responsible for those 100+ who died from ignition switch failures because that was the OLD GM, not the new GM. Right, every time you get into trouble, file bankruptcy and become. I see a new Boeing coming along!

 

[Black Dahlia]

The only thing I can take away from all this is the Performance model I just bought for 62k is pretty much being sold for 49k now.

I don't care about what I paid. The issue is seeing the car more widely available to certain demographics.

When I picked up an Infiniti with a 52k price tag. It was nice, the other owners had a slight better attitude. Then suddenly the car's value tanked and people were able to grab them for half the cost. Quickly the fanbase and atmosphere went from luxury refinement to **** boy galore, hideous, cheap and *sugar* modifications. Only a handful were modified to a decent level.

Teslas haven't really been attractive to the ricer-clubs as cars over 50K are out of the reach for people to buy cheap coilovers/cut springs, fake wheels, and the like... That's going to change soon I guess. This flood of $49K LR AWDs that get a Performance tune for $2000 is already shattering my love for the Performance model, and I've only had it for 3 weeks.

If they make a Ludicrous update available only to Performance models, real Performance models, that'd be nice...

I'd continue to rant, but it is what it is. We'll see Tesla's name tarnished soon, and it's not because of the price cuts per se, but the people it attracts.

I'm all in for downvotes, because those are generally coming from people that wash paper plates and plastic knives and forks.