Latest Price Drop Discussion

[pdx_m3s]

Tesla is going to what's best for the company on a go-forward basis. It is a publicly traded enterprise after all, which means that its first priority is to maximize shareholder value. Tesla made a calculated decision to lower prices, because that is what it determined to be best for the company going forward. Did it piss off some existing customers? Sure. However, that's a negative externality they were willing to absorb, and it was determined that the benefits of lower prices outweighed the cost (some upset customers).

When you separate the emotion from the facts, the situation is straight-forward: Tesla made a decision that it believes to be in the best interest of the company.

 

[Bernesto]

t's a far point. If I had bought another $70k car real depreciation would be similar, which is why I wouldn't have. Despite buying the performance model I'm not really a car guy. It doesn't factor very highly in my life above having safe transportation. I know how to put money to use and I hate to put it in a car, but I'm big on the electric vision, I really like Tesla's products and I can afford it so I went ahead. Now I'm just calling out the fact that Tesla is another scummy car company and much much worse in terms of customer service than the big brands. It's a major disappointment and I also hate getting swindled.

So, I take a different perspective to the "scummy car company" view, while understanding why you'd feel the way you do. I see Tesla as a company so wrapped up in growing pains, it is dropping the ball in a few areas. Personally, I have been let down in some areas, and not in others. The product is quality and truly revolutionary. The service departments are far and few between, overwhelmed and under resourced, "yet friendly". And basic business operations like sales, support, communications, marketing, and business strategy are woefully inadequate.

Tesla is what I call a 'vacuum' company. Filling a huge market vacuum. You don't have to do a perfect job to fill that vacuum, just good enough. Big oil let grow that vacuum grow to a tipping point with big motor companies, and Tesla swooped in to fill it. Can it be done better, yes?

Apple took off in 2006 from a small percentage player, to be the juggernaut it is today. Tesla has had almost the same runway. Both have amazing products, but the prior has near perfect business systems in place for customer service and customer experience. A feat that Tesla could learn a few lessons from.

That said, the first item, product quality, is the one that really matters. Tesla build a good car. And they can improve in the other areas with some top level adjustments.

While I think SpaceX and now Neuralink are neat, cool, and possibly world changing. It might be a good idea to focus on getting the cash cow humming smoothly before taking on other pet projects... Just saying...

 

[Sutton 3P]

I'm sorta amazed at the people in here. Rich enough to buy a tesla. Smart enough to own an EV. Lacks the intelligence to understand basic economic principle. Market price : where the good is perceived a value to the consumer. If you bought it back when it was $10k higher, you thought it was a fair price. If it drops, well you over paid but YOU decided that long before the price drop. I bought my model 3 (refuse to use M3) Long Range Red at $57k after tax before incentives with a net $47k after. It was i knew to be a good deal then. It's still a good deal now.

What is lacking in intelligence is the claim that if "you thought it was a fair price" then that's what counts. Uh no, that might apply to buying a bottle of water at the beach but when you are being intelligent about a major purchase from a reputable brand what you are betting on is not a fair price, but a reasonably level of certainty about the item's future value.

For the "fair price" people: how exactly can you determine a "fair price"? Did you reverse engineer the car, determine the cost of parts, the expected market share, the price scaling with production, and so on? What matters when making a smart purchase is not whether profit margins are large or small (whether the price is "fair" or "unfair" in your view) but whether they are constant. Apple famously has massive profit margins, which you might find "unfair" but it doesn't really matter so long as they don't change. If Apple wildly varied their profit margins day to day in a short term attempt to satisfy share holders they would destroy the brand. That's what Tesla has effectively done.

 

[WarpedOne]

What is certain is that in the future the price will need to drop much more.

Because people will learn of Tesla ways and stay away.

 

[Daniel in SD]

What is lacking in intelligence is the claim that if "you thought it was a fair price" then that's what counts. Uh no, that might apply to buying a bottle of water at the beach but when you are being intelligent about a major purchase from a reputable brand what you are betting on is not a fair price, but a reasonably level of certainty about the item's future value.

For the "fair price" people: how exactly can you determine a "fair price"? Did you reverse engineer the car, determine the cost of parts, the expected market share, the price scaling with production, and so on? What matters when making a smart purchase is not whether profit margins are large or small (whether the price is "fair" or "unfair" in your view) but whether they are constant. Apple famously has massive profit margins, which you might find "unfair" but it doesn't really matter so long as they don't change. If Apple wildly varied their profit margins day to day in a short term attempt to satisfy share holders they would destroy the brand. That's what Tesla has effectively done.

Apple does change their prices. They just do a better job at hiding it. How else would they ever sell iPhone in the months before the new model comes out?
Latest Price Drop Discussion

 

[DrEvil]

What is lacking in intelligence is the claim that if "you thought it was a fair price" then that's what counts. Uh no, that might apply to buying a bottle of water at the beach but when you are being intelligent about a major purchase from a reputable brand what you are betting on is not a fair price, but a reasonably level of certainty about the item's future value.

For the "fair price" people: how exactly can you determine a "fair price"? Did you reverse engineer the car, determine the cost of parts, the expected market share, the price scaling with production, and so on? What matters when making a smart purchase is not whether profit margins are large or small (whether the price is "fair" or "unfair" in your view) but whether they are constant. Apple famously has massive profit margins, which you might find "unfair" but it doesn't really matter so long as they don't change. If Apple wildly varied their profit margins day to day in a short term attempt to satisfy share holders they would destroy the brand. That's what Tesla has effectively done.

So you're telling me that your car dropping in value from $73K to $62K is insane and predicated on lies, but Apple's phones are allowed to drop from $1100 to $800 in the same amount of time because they're not based on lies? Earlier you used hyperbole and asked if Apple should charge millions for their first batch run of their new phone.

Your Tesla could be dead/turned off sitting in the middle of a 6 lane highway and get a side impact at 40 mph and you would probably be able to walk away from that car. Would you dare think of that happening in any other vehicle? That safety is never going to disappear from your car even if the price drops to $0.

If you're going to buy a car based on financial choices and think of it as investment, you forgot to include the single most important asset you have - your own health and well being. As long as you sit in that car over another car you are safer. It doesn't matter that some other actuary fails to properly reflect the value of the used car. Why do you insist on basing the value on what others claim it to be?

My Model X has a lot of downsides compared to the Honda Odyssey that I drove before getting the X. The other day I had to move 6 people in my X and honestly is was a chore compared to how easy it is to put 8 into an Odyssey. But the fact remains that the X is a lot safer than the Odyssey which is saying something considering that minivans are one of the safest vehicle types on the road.

I have seen people's bodies missing limbs and horrible things done to their body. I have had people die while under my hands. In my opinion, you are not seeing the value of your own body - which are protected to the best of your ability while riding in a Tesla. I can't even imagine how many of my former patients would give all their worldly wealth to avoid the pain they feel after a permanent injury from a vehicle accident.

 

[Bernesto]

Teslas haven't really been attractive to the ricer-clubs as cars over 50K are out of the reach for people to buy cheap coilovers/cut springs, fake wheels, and the like... That's going to change soon I guess. This flood of $49K LR AWDs that get a Performance tune for $2000 is already shattering my love for the Performance model, and I've only had it for 3 weeks.

So much to say... Um, first, Tesla shouldn't be an elitist brand. Sounds implied here... Second, I have seen people do unspeakable things to Ferrari's, Tesla will be no exception here. Third, Infiniti is an upscale Nissan, and as such going attract a 'ricer' crowd in the used market. Forth, there isn't much of an aftermarket for Tesla tuners to bolt on (yet?) which will deter many. Four point one, many will brick their Tesla's in trying to do so, so, you can rest assured you'll get a good laugh...

 

[Bernesto]

So you're telling me that your car dropping in value from $73K to $62K is insane and predicated on lies, but Apple's phones are allowed to drop from $1100 to $800 in the same amount of time because they're not based on lies? Earlier you stated used hyperbole and asked if Apple should charge millions for their first batch run of their new phone.

And the iPhone is one off the highest valued used phones! Look at the residual on an LG or Samsung in two years... lol!

The only psudo-lie I see out of Tesla, is some overly optimistic FSD talk from Elon, and customer expectations of something called 'autopilot' based on what they think the term means. With that, and being a technerd gearhead, I'd say NOA far exceeds my expectations and the driver assist tech in other luxury brands at the same or greater price point.

The thing I think is going to be interesting is how KBB and NADA try to value these cars in a year or two with so many midyear product changes... Do you have the single motor or dual, was it the single motor with the long range battery, is the FSD HW2 or HW3 (who knows really, guess based on date and the CEO on twitter?), does your car have fixed magnet motors? I mean seriously.This is going to be tough! Tesla has so many firmware configurations due to so many configurations, it isn't an apples to apples.

 

[Black Dahlia]

So much to say... Um, first, Tesla shouldn't be an elitist brand. Sounds implied here... Second, I have seen people do unspeakable things to Ferrari's, Tesla will be no exception here. Third, Infiniti is an upscale Nissan, and as such going attract a 'ricer' crowd in the used market. Forth, there isn't much of an aftermarket for Tesla tuners to bolt on (yet?) which will deter many. Four point one, many will brick their Tesla's in trying to do so, so, you can rest assured you'll get a good laugh...

Shouldn't be an elitist brand but releases early with cars priced in exotic ranges. I get that the Model 3 was to be released as a car for "everyone" but a massive price dip every quarter doesn't stand with everyone's depreciation theory. Tesla is tarnishing the brand to stay alive, and it's the worst... I've hated Apple for over the last decade, but maybe they should take over Tesla, because at least they know how to market.

I swear the same people heavily defending and praising these price drops are the very same liberals that say the 2nd amendment was only in application to the musket/Flint lock rifle base. Comparing a hand held device to something that is literally 5000% more, as if buying cars is a thing done by every person on a yearly basis, is purely stupid. The only thing that can be compared between electronics and cars is that a lot people do change their vehicles and electronics every 3-5 years.

The unspeakable things done to exotics are far and few between, around 1% to maybe 5% of the total production of the vehicles... Modified Model 3s with horrible taste are literally as it stands almost 50%, for every 2, I see something done to one that made it look like it rolled off a PepBoy's convention event floor. The days of Megan Racing with Vossens on Teslas are approaching hard and fast. There's decent CF kits available already, but are pretty nice. But those kits will be undersold from mass produced China CF rebranded and sold by "US based" companies. Don't even want to think about the cheap FRP and ABS kits that will make the car look like some ugly British luxury sport cars. All because 3.2 second Performance models will be available for 20k with this trend.

Maybe at best, the same people that can afford 30-40k for a Performance model will scream bloody murder when they become available for 20k. A minor difference compared to us that paid 62k, 72k, or even 82k for the same exact car.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

So you're telling me that your car dropping in value from $73K to $62K is insane and predicated on lies, but Apple's phones are allowed to drop from $1100 to $800 in the same amount of time because they're not based on lies? Earlier you stated used hyperbole and asked if Apple should charge millions for their first batch run of their new phone.

Your Tesla could be dead/turned off sitting in the middle of a 6 lane highway and get a side impact at 40 mph and you would probably be able to walk away from that car. Would you dare think of that happening in any other vehicle? That safety is never going to disappear from your car even if the price drops to $0.

If you're going to buy a car based on financial choices and think of it as investment, you forgot to include the single most important asset you have - your own health and well being. As long as you sit in that car over another car you are safer. It does matter that some other actuary fails to properly reflect the value of the used car. Why do you insist on basing the value on what others claim it to be?

My Model X has a lot of downsides compared to the Honda Odyssey that I drove before getting the X. The other day I had to move 6 people in my X and honestly is was a chore compared to how easy it is to put 8 into an Odyssey. But the fact remains that the X is a lot safer than the Odyssey which is saying something considering that minivans are one of the safest vehicle types on the road.

I have seen people's bodies missing limbs and horrible things done to their body. I have had people die while under my hands. In my opinion, you are not seeing the value of your own body - which are protecting to the best of your ability while riding in a Tesla. I can't even imagine how many of my former patients would give all their worldly wealth to avoid the pain they feel after a permanent injury from a vehicle accident.

The above is probably the most important thing brought up in all 23 pages, and often forgot.

 

[liquid_celica]

What is lacking in intelligence is the claim that if "you thought it was a fair price" then that's what counts. Uh no, that might apply to buying a bottle of water at the beach but when you are being intelligent about a major purchase from a reputable brand what you are betting on is not a fair price, but a reasonably level of certainty about the item's future value.

For the "fair price" people: how exactly can you determine a "fair price"? Did you reverse engineer the car, determine the cost of parts, the expected market share, the price scaling with production, and so on? What matters when making a smart purchase is not whether profit margins are large or small (whether the price is "fair" or "unfair" in your view) but whether they are constant. Apple famously has massive profit margins, which you might find "unfair" but it doesn't really matter so long as they don't change. If Apple wildly varied their profit margins day to day in a short term attempt to satisfy share holders they would destroy the brand. That's what Tesla has effectively done.

Obviously you've done yourself in with your Apple example. Others have already shown that. Yes, like the Wii on launch day, some people paid 2x msrp to be first owners. Apple same thing, you paid $1k to be an early owner of an iphone X, fully knowing that if you wait 3 months, you would have gotten a BOGO on it reducing it to effectively half. But no one is complaining on that because its a commodity that goes with the market. So yeah, thanks for proving the rest of us right when we talk about the intelligence factor.

 

[Octo]

The unspeakable things done to exotics are far and few between, around 1% to maybe 5% of the total production of the vehicles... Modified Model 3s with horrible taste are literally as it stands almost 50%, for every 2, I see something done to one that made it look like it rolled off a PepBoy's convention event floor. The days of Megan Racing with Vossens on Teslas are approaching hard and fast. There's decent CF kits available already, but are pretty nice. But those kits will be undersold from mass produced China CF rebranded and sold by "US based" companies. Don't even want to think about the cheap FRP and ABS kits that will make the car look like some ugly British luxury sport cars.

My P3 came with a taped on CF “spoiler”. From the factory. Maybe you should ping Teslas twitter in chief about cheap adornements?

 

[Black Dahlia]

My P3 came with a taped on CF “spoiler”. From the factory. Maybe you should ping Teslas twitter in chief about cheap adornements?

That's how all parts are applied to vehicles... Industrial double sided sticky tape. Did you expect fasteners, epoxy or the like? Even Ferraris are like this.

 

[liquid_celica]

I'm all in for downvotes, because those are generally coming from people that wash paper plates and plastic knives and forks.

LOL, I didn't down vote, and really support TESLA's price drop, but I definitely own several cupful of restaurant plastic knives and fork. Don't forget the togo chopsticks. Glad to see another asian model 3 owner in here. hahaha

 

[Octo]

That's how all parts are applied to vehicles... Industrial double sided sticky tape. Did you expect fasteners, epoxy or the like? Even Ferraris are like this.

Yeah, cheap adornements that you think defile the car are taped on. That was my point.

A real, quality spoiler is not glued on. Because its purpose is to increase downward force at high speed.

Ever seen a Porsche 911 with a factory glued on spoiler LOL?!

 

[Black Dahlia]

Ever seen a Porsche 911 with a factory glued on spoiler LOL?!

Considering most new 911s use an electronic speed adjusting spoiler. No. However 2012-2015 991s have spoilers that are affixed with double sided tape. What are you trying to prove here?

 

[Daniel in SD]

There is a certain irony here. Tesla said the Model 3 would start at $35k and then sold it for $70k+. Anyone who actually trusted Tesla in the first place would have seen these price drops coming
BTW I was one the people who thought they would never sell a $35k Model 3.

 

[Octo]

Considering most new 911s use an electronic speed adjusting spoiler. No. However 2012-2015 991s have spoilers that are affixed with double sided tape. What are you trying to prove here?

I’m trying to prove that your concern that people will defile a Tesla are redundant because some Teslas come defiled (by your standards) from the factory.

 

[Sutton 3P]

Obviously you've done yourself in with your Apple example. Others have already shown that. Yes, like the Wii on launch day, some people paid 2x msrp to be first owners. Apple same thing, you paid $1k to be an early owner of an iphone X, fully knowing that if you wait 3 months, you would have gotten a BOGO on it reducing it to effectively half. But no one is complaining on that because its a commodity that goes with the market. So yeah, thanks for proving the rest of us right when we talk about the intelligence factor.

This comes back to what I was addressing in your first post, which is that you don’t seem to understand basic finance concepts like in this case subsidization of phone prices by subscription contracts. In the example cited in this thread the iPhone is advertised as $0. I hope you can appreciate that Apple isn’t actually giving away their phone. If you pay the same price for your unbundled cell plan as for the bundled one then you’re doing it wrong. I thought this is common knowledge...

If you bother to read my post, what I said is that Apple doesn’t wildly vary their profit margins day to day and if they did they would destroy their brand, as Tesla is doing. So what exactly is your point? Are you claiming that Apple is wildly varying their profit margins day to day?

 

[DrEvil]

Yeah, cheap adornements that you think defile the car are taped on. That was my point.

A real, quality spoiler is not glued on. Because its purpose is to increase downward force at high speed.

Ever seen a Porsche 911 with a factory glued on spoiler LOL?!

Yeah but your model 3 glass roof is glued on and it's glass. There are many parts of modern airliners that are "glued" on and some of those planes are worth more than the entire value of Porsche sales in a week.

The question should be does the downforce created by said spoiler torque off the spoiler at high speeds? If it doesn't then it works as intended. Perhaps the question is could a huge wing be bolted on haha.

Personally I'm going to take the rear elevators off a Cessna citation and put them on my Model X with industrial velco... the hell with glues and bolts!