dblankenbaker
Member
Fact 4 - Got bragging rights in the neighborhood, at work, etc for having the newest and greatest car.
Fact 5 - Has enjoyed 10 months driving that car.
Fact 5 - Has enjoyed 10 months driving that car.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Latest Price Drop Discussion
- Thread starter Sutton 3P
- Start date
Fact 6 - If you had a trade-in, that value is less now, than it was 10 months ago. I traded in my Chevy Volt, for $18000 in December. I saw someone on the Chevy forums, recently got a trade in quote from Tesla of $15,300 for the same car.
I think many people here are still missing the point. Let me inject my point of view as it got buried in a frozen thread.
I call Tesla pricing policy an inverse pyramid - it entices new buyers while alienating considerable percentage of previous ones. I've seen this happen to a few folks who could afford earlier Model S/X. They could afford the car but wanted to feel good about their purchases and they didn't due to how fast the value and uniqueness/rarity of their purchase went down. Those folks are waiting for the likes of Porsche/Audi to take their money to next; while performance/price may not be as good as Tesla the car would feel more luxury and more unique and they'd feel better about the purchase.
This devaluation process has accelerated with Model 3 and it was hard to predict when making a purchase decision.
Me? I miscalculated ... I wanted a fast sleeper car that would give me freedom to politely move through the traffic and have fun on twisty side roads and mountain roads. A practical car with few other cars on the road to match the performance. I projected my cost of ownership over 6-7-8 year I planned to own the car and ordered Model 3 Performance. I was pissed that Tesla forced me to pay $5K when I didn't want a $67K car without a modern cruise control so I got EAP, because I wanted to feel good about my big purchase. In my projections I took into account that I was buying a new platform, that I timed my purchase with a $5K discount, that the car will be reliable and that I am saving on maintenance and fuel compared to ICE. Very little in that projection was "for the good cause"; I was making a practical decision based on value of the car to me and the amount of money I was willing to spend based on my observation of Tesla maturity and the pricing policy to date.
Now 8 month later the same configuration I wanted is $16K less (I would have been happy with basic AP). So, the resale value of my 8 month old car is more where I saw it in 5 years or so. I was hoping to sell for 40% of my price (which was around $72K accounting on the tax and $7.5 tax deduction); it is now probably 55-60%, not on track at all. And I was not off with my residual value predictions on previous cars in my family; I recently sold an almost 12 years old Acura for 25% of its cost including taxes.
Note that these $16K very considerably increase the amount I pay for tabs ($900/year in Seattle area) and insurance (my insurance company gives lower quotes for 2019 M3P compared to 2018, crazy, yeah?). This can easily amount to more than $1.5K-2K additional over my expected term of ownership. Accounting on $7.5K-$2K bigger tax break than the current buyers are getting and $1.6K more tax I had to pay it is still at least $14K-14.5K more translating cost over the expected term of ownership to the new car price. Performance wise the car feels much less unique as much higher percentage of Tesla buyers in Seattle area buy Model 3 Performance. Autopilot actually got less usable for me as, due to phantom breaking, I am more reluctant to engage it during my daily commute to work.
Am I sorry I got a Tesla? Somewhat. My other option was to spend about 60% of how much I actually paid for the Model 3, get a slightly used performance car and modify it to improve handling and performance to have 0-60 at 4s or slightly below. Compared to Model 3 Performance it would have had less immediate torque and slightly slower 0-60 but would be more playful on twisty roads and in the snow. It would have held its value way better.
I do, I do smile practically every day I get to drive my Model 3. But I did it with in my previous car too, to a bit lesser degree I admit. I just don't want to feel irritated about my wrong projections about cost of ownership so I stopped recommending Tesla to my friends. I can tell you that most of people whom I gave a ride and who could afford Tesla started considering a Tesla. Because I drive the car as if it is fun. I still help sell Teslas every day when I move through medium density traffic in Seattle downtown and the highways in the area as if I am on a motorcycle - politely making my maneuvers without giving a chance to passive-aggressive Seattle drivers to block me. They believe the magic comes from the car and they all want to drive the same. BTW, I never launch like crazy from an intersection. I find it silly. This is not a part of the "driving freedom" I personally buy performance cars for.
Cheers
I call Tesla pricing policy an inverse pyramid - it entices new buyers while alienating considerable percentage of previous ones. I've seen this happen to a few folks who could afford earlier Model S/X. They could afford the car but wanted to feel good about their purchases and they didn't due to how fast the value and uniqueness/rarity of their purchase went down. Those folks are waiting for the likes of Porsche/Audi to take their money to next; while performance/price may not be as good as Tesla the car would feel more luxury and more unique and they'd feel better about the purchase.
This devaluation process has accelerated with Model 3 and it was hard to predict when making a purchase decision.
Me? I miscalculated ... I wanted a fast sleeper car that would give me freedom to politely move through the traffic and have fun on twisty side roads and mountain roads. A practical car with few other cars on the road to match the performance. I projected my cost of ownership over 6-7-8 year I planned to own the car and ordered Model 3 Performance. I was pissed that Tesla forced me to pay $5K when I didn't want a $67K car without a modern cruise control so I got EAP, because I wanted to feel good about my big purchase. In my projections I took into account that I was buying a new platform, that I timed my purchase with a $5K discount, that the car will be reliable and that I am saving on maintenance and fuel compared to ICE. Very little in that projection was "for the good cause"; I was making a practical decision based on value of the car to me and the amount of money I was willing to spend based on my observation of Tesla maturity and the pricing policy to date.
Now 8 month later the same configuration I wanted is $16K less (I would have been happy with basic AP). So, the resale value of my 8 month old car is more where I saw it in 5 years or so. I was hoping to sell for 40% of my price (which was around $72K accounting on the tax and $7.5 tax deduction); it is now probably 55-60%, not on track at all. And I was not off with my residual value predictions on previous cars in my family; I recently sold an almost 12 years old Acura for 25% of its cost including taxes.
Note that these $16K very considerably increase the amount I pay for tabs ($900/year in Seattle area) and insurance (my insurance company gives lower quotes for 2019 M3P compared to 2018, crazy, yeah?). This can easily amount to more than $1.5K-2K additional over my expected term of ownership. Accounting on $7.5K-$2K bigger tax break than the current buyers are getting and $1.6K more tax I had to pay it is still at least $14K-14.5K more translating cost over the expected term of ownership to the new car price. Performance wise the car feels much less unique as much higher percentage of Tesla buyers in Seattle area buy Model 3 Performance. Autopilot actually got less usable for me as, due to phantom breaking, I am more reluctant to engage it during my daily commute to work.
Am I sorry I got a Tesla? Somewhat. My other option was to spend about 60% of how much I actually paid for the Model 3, get a slightly used performance car and modify it to improve handling and performance to have 0-60 at 4s or slightly below. Compared to Model 3 Performance it would have had less immediate torque and slightly slower 0-60 but would be more playful on twisty roads and in the snow. It would have held its value way better.
I do, I do smile practically every day I get to drive my Model 3. But I did it with in my previous car too, to a bit lesser degree I admit. I just don't want to feel irritated about my wrong projections about cost of ownership so I stopped recommending Tesla to my friends. I can tell you that most of people whom I gave a ride and who could afford Tesla started considering a Tesla. Because I drive the car as if it is fun. I still help sell Teslas every day when I move through medium density traffic in Seattle downtown and the highways in the area as if I am on a motorcycle - politely making my maneuvers without giving a chance to passive-aggressive Seattle drivers to block me. They believe the magic comes from the car and they all want to drive the same. BTW, I never launch like crazy from an intersection. I find it silly. This is not a part of the "driving freedom" I personally buy performance cars for.
Cheers
People need to understand that cars are the worst purchase to make. They depreciate the moment they role off the dealer lot. There are few exceptions, but buying a car as an appreciating asset is the wrong approach. You buy a car to consume it. Again, there are exceptions but that is the general rule.
I think I understand the gist of what you were driving at. But the thesis does not hold. Except for the month and year of assembly, stamped on the inside driver-side door, the Model 3 you buy today is identical to the model 3 you bought in the summer of 2018. There is no model year, only year of purchase. The other flaw is it's not just the prices drop, they drop then rise, then drop then rise.
Federal incentives are just that, non-manufacturer incentive to buy into a new technology. Did Tesla take advantage of that? Yeah, maybe but the two are are separate. Also, at least a year or two ago Tesla did have a financing arm. Some of us couldn't take advantage of it as Tesla did not corporately have license to do business in that customer's state so some other entity had to do the financing.
But Mr. Musk said my Model 3 will earn up to $330,000 as a robo-taxi.
I highly doubt that will ever come to fruition but if it does it will need to be based on much less expensive vehicles.
jgs
Active Member
No. I get that you are, though.
Wait a minute, they've stopped providing a 14-50 adapter?!? That's just bizarre. It's, like, the standard way to charge.
jgs
Active Member
OK, that annoys me more than any of the price decrease stuff I've read on this thread. It doesn't even affect me and it annoys me. Is Tesla trying to upsell everyone to HPWCs or something?
He said $30,000. I suspect that is if you bought it as a business expense and it spent it's days and evenings in service as a rentable ride. He likely didn't factor in vandalism repairs. Whether Manhattan or Boston, where is the car gonna park while waiting for a rider? It's not, it'll be constantly moving. Even at 30 mph over a 10 hr day that's 300 miles, that's 2 nearly full supercharges/day. These cars weren't meant to be supercharged every day, or every week, much less twice per day. BTW, that 300 miles/day is about 110,000 miles/year.
$30k per year or $300k over lifespan of car. Not realistic though IMO.
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/04/23/tesla-robotaxis-owners-earn-money-musk-tsla.html
This is all intended to appeal to people’s greed and fear of losing out if they don’t give him $7000 for FSD. After all, it’ll only get more expensive (eyeroll) and you’ll make $30k/year if you buy FSD NOW
Don’t wait too long. It’ll become unaffordable!!!
Don’t wait too long. It’ll become unaffordable!!!
Exactly. I applaud the vision but I disagree with the consumption model.
Rather than charging everyone for vaporware and then saying get it now before it goes up in price even more they should just make FSD a subscription service. They can easily turn features on or off within the fleet so just let owners subscribe monthly to the specific features or packages they want just like many other cloud services offer. I would subscribe to TACC, AutoSteer and NoA right now. Not interested in AutoPark or Summon. They would create a recurring revenue stream to fund the development and incentivize the company keep adding value and delivering features.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Same as no longer including the phone cables- It saves Tesla a few bucks on every single car they sell, and gets even more bucks to them for people who do need em and buy them from their accessory store (without needlessly including them 'free' for the cars that don't).... and yeah I imagine it might convince a few folks to just get a wall charger instead of a spare standard charger and a 14-50 adapter.
jgs
Active Member
I guess if they find the need for 14-50 in the field is low, it's a sensible corner to cut. I confess I've never once used mine other than in my own driveway.
Out of all the complaints about price increases, I do think that Performance buyers have a legit gripe. (excluding the fees/insurance since that is a local issue; take up registration costs with your Legislator!).
IMO, Elon ought to consider giving the early P adopters a bigger break (than $1k) on FSD.
Sg911
Member
I agree!! I don’t like that FSD tactic... obsoleting other Tesla owners non FSD that don’t need it right now or maybe ever
As an owner of a P3+, the biggest problem with the M3P is that the hardware for the "Performance Model" is nothing to write home about. We all know that we are basically paying for the acceleration, which they are pretty much giving it away at this point.
Here is what they should have done to the M3P+ to get more takers.
- Brembo Brakes (not Tesla branded) 6-Piston calipers up front, 4 piston rear. Just about every manufacturer in the industry uses Brembo now.
- Sport Seats for the 3P+. Doesn't need to be a set of Recaro racing seats or anything but more side bolstering and perforate them to look sportier.
- More Tire. The 3P+ doesn't really need 20"s, lighter 19s" would work but they they should have put a wider tire on just to differentiate the performance trim. 255 or 265 instead of 235 width would have worked and looked more aggressive.
- Front splitter or slightly more aggressive front bumper to differentiate the P trim.
- Sport Suspension - I would have loved to see magnetic ride added but even if we give Telsa a pass on mag ride, it should at least have performance dampers, springs and stiffer sway bars on the Performance model. I mean Tesla's idea of sport suspension is to cut the springs a little bit for .4 inch drop. If there is in fact slightly different hardware on the 3P then shame on marketing for not calling it out and selling the value.
- Heads Up Display - I am not sure why Tesla invested so much time on Track Mode but did not include a HUD or Performance Data Recorder application. The dash cam and sensors are there and you know they collect all the telemetry data since they used it to develop Track Mode. Just display the stuff on the screen. 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap timers, g-meters should be easily displayed.
Similar threads
