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Lawfirm seeking for class action participants

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by Matias, Mar 22, 2017.

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  1. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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  2. Gerasimental

    Gerasimental Member

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    Electrek make some good points. I suppose it will boil down to whether the bold warning that appears during purchase and in vehicle is legally sufficient.
    I don't think Elon's timeline estimates are really legally relevant as you can't expect a buyer of a Tesla to read or listen to every word spoken by the CEO.
     
  3. xborg

    xborg Member

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    I don't think they would win, but that would be a nice warning to Tesla. You cannot just make assumptions and charge premium prices for a feature that doesn't exist. They use regulatory approval as an excuse.
    For someone leasing the car, this is a visible extra cost.

    If the law firm is looking for a case that they can win, I'd suggest them to look at P85D HP claims and P90D quarter mile times and power reductions. They can start reading here: Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

    Or maybe dishonest battery capacities? Tesla Motors: PLEASE stop lying about specifications (60 to 75 upgrade)
     
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  4. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Anyone joining this class action should be ashamed of themselves.
    It was always obvious that AP is a work in progress, and Tesla is obviously working as fast as possible on it. This is not the time to burden them with petty legal action.
     
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  5. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    Several class actions are likely necessary to curb Tesla corporates abuses of their customers. The above list is a good start. I would add disclosure of private vehicle data without owner consent to the list.
     
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  6. disagree

    disagree hos epi to polu

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    As some of you know, I'm as pissed as anyone about EAP's rollout and Tesla's duplicity in motivating sales, but from the firm's statement:
    That seems like an awfully bad starting point to make a case.
    And since I don't lease, I know I'm reluctant to sign up for something that just gets me my money back so that when EAP/FSD do work I can re-buy at a premium. :confused:
     
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  7. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    *IF* they let you back as a customer...
     
  8. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

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    The point the law firm misses (probably on purpose since it makes a settlement much more likely which assures them a hefty fee) is that many of us probably would not have purchased the car AT ALL if we knew then what Elon has since acknowledged. In a way, the law firm is doing Tesla a favor by concentrating on refunds for the AP2 feature rather than seeking to recover the actual cost of the vehicles.
     
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  9. disagree

    disagree hos epi to polu

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    Actually, after re-reading the page, it does seem they are talking about or leaving open the possibility of reimbursement for the "automobile" and not merely the feature.

    Emphasis mine.
     
  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Predictable that an entrepreneurial class action law firm would do this. The sad part is they'll probably find some ignorant buyer who thought he was buying a full self driving car, or at least claims that's what he thought. It's amazing how little research some people do before buying a >$100,000 car, now that Tesla has gone more mainstream rather than just appealing to EV enthusiasts.
     
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  11. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    In many discussions on this forum on ethicality or lack of it about Tesla's marketing of EAP, parity with AP1, self driving, etc. - many point to "Elon time", twits, or website disclaimers (in bold) BUT when discussions turn to "suing Tesla" the same crowd goes "suing for what? Read your contract".

    Well, here is what my purchase agreement states:
    upload_2017-3-22_9-38-1.png

    There is no mention if any of the features are delayed or not; or subject to this or that. The agreement states that I paid for the above list of features. Nothing about regulatory approval in Terms and Conditions.

    Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect the above features present when you get the car?

    (P.S. this is not my personal position, I'm fully aware of what I bought and conditions of these features).
     
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  12. callmesam

    callmesam Member

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    Where is "full self driving" currently permitted?

    This is a very stupid class action. Worse, it's not ripe yet.
     
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  13. JHWJR

    JHWJR Member

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    At the time you check the box on the order page, as you must to get "Enhanced Autopilot," it says, among other things:

    "Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval."

    At the time you check the box on the order page, as you must to get "Full Self-Driving Capability," it says, among other things:

    "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval." Bold original.

    They can SAY they didn't know that it was not yet in place, but it's going to be hard to get past the fact that they were told, even if they chose not to read. And I don't t think anyone can claim that that text was buried on page 45 in tiny print of a linked EULA or something like that. It's right there next to the check box.

    Now, if they find a memo in Elon's desk saying "Let's charge folks for this capability and even though we know right now it will never work," then that could be a problem. If they find a memo in Elon's desk saying "We thought this would work with the hardware we put in, but it's apparent now that this is never going to work," then that could be a problem too. If they find a memo in Elon's desk saying "We thought this would work in 16 months, but it's going to be closer to 24 months," that's a risk that folks pretty much signed up for.

    But I think that folks who bought the car expecting it would self-drive upon delivery are sorely mistaken if they think they are getting their money back for the feature or the car.
     
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  14. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    Personally I am glad someone is taking the initiative and sending a strong message to Tesla that they cant keep promoting and charging for features that are not available and may never be available. I also think they should remove the self driving video from their website and stop promoting it as if it really existed at the time they published it. If it took them many runs on the same course to learn the road and make the video its not realistic in the real world.
     
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  15. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    They charge you for features that aren't available, while telling you they aren't available. You have to choose to purchase it...it can be purchased after the fact....

    The video shows the capabilities that will be available...that seems pretty normal when promoting a product.
     
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  16. disagree

    disagree hos epi to polu

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    This is tedious. The description for EAP was changed in January.

    It used to be this:

    [​IMG]

    Now, of course, you can argue about what that means up there. But at least then you will be arguing about the right thing.

    Regarding FSD: I don't understand suing over it right now. Seems silly.
     
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  17. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction."

    In order to be "dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval" you need software to validate and for which to seek regulatory approval. If you don't have any "self-driving " software to validate or for which to seek a regulatory approval, is it a fraud?
     
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  18. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    The issue is they took money for a feature they dont know if they can provide. What if they dont get the regulatory approval? Forget regulatory approval the hardware has shown that its no where close to capable to drive on its own. Heck you cant attempt AP2 if you dont keep your hands on the wheel or at any line break it will put you into a curb or the opposite lane.
     
  19. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I would guess the folks who bought cars while the December 2016 EAP date was still on the website probably have an argument, especially those who leased. They still dont have "normal" features like rain sensing wipers or auto headlights.

    If we dont get to parity until July or later, those folks were very much over promised what they got even if the language said "expected". No one in Oct/Nov buying EAP would have guessed they would still be waiting for rain sensing wipers at the end of March let alone not having parity to AP1.

    And even though AP1 took 1 year to roll out, I dont know that Tesla promised a specific date for that like they did for AP2.
     
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  20. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #20 McRat, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
    It really depends on your personal goals.

    If your goal was to accelerate the development of the EV by supporting Tesla Motors with your wallet, you should not only ignore this nonsense, but should be a vocal advocate of Tesla Motors mission, even if there are faults. There is no free lunch. All cars have good and bad, and both marketing and engineering have upsides and downsides. Without these owners, Tesla would not be where they are today.

    However, if you were shopping for a 'car', I can understand the disappointment. It's a whole new kind of car company, where paid advertising and high pressure sales are not impetus driving sales, hence the need for very optimistic press releases.

    Tesla Motors has shown that EVs are not only for the 'save the blunt nose lizard while eating tofu burger' crowd. Poor performance of EVs and hybrids is not badge of honor. "See? I'm willing to drive a slow POS just to hang out with the cool kids!" Even the base model Teslas have better real world performance than your average ICE performance car, and totally humiliate many 'green' cars.

    It would be a much better world if lawyers were held to the standards that engineers were.
     
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