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Lawyer? Help. Class Action Lawsuit All Model S/X Leases

Starman42

Member
Aug 11, 2019
7
2
Southern California
Hi,

I'm needing some advice and help with a current situation that may be grounds for a Class Action for all Model S and Model X owners who started their Lease anytime from April 2019 until now.

Would particularly appreciate any help from a lawyer who may know if this is some sort of violation or something and if you'd like to maybe be involved if this is.

It's a quite simple matter really, but Tesla is making it a huge issue, so wanted to share here, because although it may be small and simple, it's a huge deceptive and misleading "hidden fee" that I guarantee the majority of Model S and Model X Lease owners have no idea about. Not even the Sales Reps know/knew about it even after I told them.

It involves the End of Lease Buy Out price.

All the sales reps I spoke with via Phone in Fremont, and in Store in Southern California told me the buy out price for a Lease car is simply the Residual Value + Sales Tax. That's how my previous Tesla Lease was as well. So I got my new car delivered in August, a week later tesla emails me saying there was an electronic error with my signature and I have to sign again. I go to sign again and double check the numbers on the agreement and notice that the Residual Value is different than the Buy Out Price. I ask for them to fix it before I sign, they say no we won't, there is a new "$350 purchase fee" that is added to the buyout price now, that started in April 2019.

The Lease agreement has every single cost itemized regarding the costs of everything, but Nowhere on the agreement does it have this alleged "$350 Purchase fee" line itemized, and like I mentioned above, it was never disclosed to me beforehand even when I explicitly asked about buyout price and terms, because literally not even the Sales Reps knew about it. The only reason I found the discrepancy was by comparing the residual value to the buy out price on the agreement because my plan was/is to buy the car out at lease end.

I'm sure all other Model S/X leasees across the board were not disclosed of this fee, yet were deceivingly asked to sign off on it.

I still haven't signed the agreement out of principle that this was not what the sales rep sold me or what I agreed to, and I have been going back and forth with so many of Tesla's departments and even my sales rep to try and resolve this, but they are giving sooo much aggressive push back it's crazy. All for a $350 fee on a $100,000 car.

Given that this "purchase fee" was never disclosed in writing or verbally beforehand, plus it is not even line itemized in the Lease agreement at all besides it being baked into the buyout price, is this some sort of Disclosure Law Violation or violation at all? And if so, I feel every single Model S and Model X Leasee from April 2019 is affected and possibly victim of this misleading info/fee that may have grounds for a Class Action?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!
 

isracing

Member
Aug 2, 2019
157
50
Bay Area
most brands have a lease return fee, maybe this is the same thing you still have to pay regardless of buying it out or giving it back.

But all in all, leasing a Tesla (sorry that you did) is a HORRIBLE financial decision. I ran the numbers 7 ways from Sunday, and even had sales reps tell me that Tesla Leases are garbage.

Buy a 2019 for 87k out the door with standard options and colors, or lease it, then buy it out and be ~110k ALL IN after payments and buyout taxes and fees.

No thanks, I'll keep my 20+grand in my pocket. Unless you have tons of cash to throw away and WANT a new car every few years, it's stupid to lease a Tesla.
 
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r0xx0r

Member
Jul 9, 2016
437
335
CA
No thanks, I'll keep my 20+grand in my pocket. Unless you have tons of cash to throw away and WANT a new car every few years, it's stupid to lease a Tesla.

I don’t have tons of cash but sometimes the lease is really reasonable. I had Model X 75D full option for $900/month with 2 years lease contract back in 2017. Just returned it to get a X Raven soon.

so I lost ~ $27k in 2 years. But if I bought it before, i would lost more than that. The car was $99k - right now trade-in only worth $60k.
 

D.E.

Uncorked
Oct 12, 2016
761
980
Ann Arbor, MI
If you haven’t agreed to the $350 and haven’t signed the new papers, you haven’t lost that $350. If you haven’t lost it, you haven’t been hurt so you have no damages to recover, so can’t sue. That said, I’m sure you can but it will be dismissed.

You can tell whoever you are leasing from that you don’t agree with the change in the lease agreement, so if the changed terms are important to them, you’ll allow them to cancel the lease and they can come get their car. They will probably suggest you simply not buy the car at the end if it is a worry.

Realistically the extra $350 4 years down the line isn’t worth all this grief.

As far as class action suits go, those suits generally hugely benefit the lawyers, and to a much lesser extent the 2 or 3 people active in the suit, everyone else in the class gets pennies. Since the damage in this case is limited to $350 per person, you are unlikely to find a lawyer who will accept this case. Remember, you have no damages, you want to sue for damage you anticipate suffering in 4 years.

If you decide to sue, successfully or not, you won’t ever be able to lease another car from these people. Is that in line with your lifelong future leasing plans?
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,924
7,716
Visalia, CA
...Lease agreement...

You didn't sign for the $350 fee so Tesla should honor that even though it was its own mistake for providing you one without the fee and now it wants to correct that mistake and has you sign up the new fee.

You need to read the lease agreement to see what Tesla's rights are: can they cancel the agreement in such cases as non-payment, mistakes...?

For $350, I am not sure there will be any lawyer who will be willing to take your case.
 

traxila

Supporting Member
Nov 25, 2012
1,843
10,761
NYC
You want to sue over 350.00 dollars on a 100,000.00 dollar car?

Are you really rich enough to buy this car? Rich people do not piss their time away like this. It costs them way too much money.

Don’t have any good advice to give you.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,513
3,844
Northern California
most brands have a lease return fee, maybe this is the same thing you still have to pay regardless of buying it out or giving it back.

But all in all, leasing a Tesla (sorry that you did) is a HORRIBLE financial decision. I ran the numbers 7 ways from Sunday, and even had sales reps tell me that Tesla Leases are garbage.

Buy a 2019 for 87k out the door with standard options and colors, or lease it, then buy it out and be ~110k ALL IN after payments and buyout taxes and fees.

No thanks, I'll keep my 20+grand in my pocket. Unless you have tons of cash to throw away and WANT a new car every few years, it's stupid to lease a Tesla.
First, lease return fee is called a disposition fee and you only pay it if you’re returning the vehicle, it’s sort of a “restocking” fee.

Second, I leased a 2015 Model S P90D with a residual of 76k. My lease ended in June of this year. Let’s say I purchased the vehicle, would I have been able to sell it for 76k? Let’s just say anyone willing to buy it at that price would also be willing to purchase ocean front property from me in Nevada.

The car was worth 60k at best, heck I’ve seen a few Model S’s in the same vin range listed for around 57-60k and they aren’t exactly selling like hot cakes.

So I ask you this, how was my decision to lease a tesla a HORRIBLE decision? By leasing it I saved 10-15 thousand over buying it and selling it 3 years later.


Edit: as for the op, you signed a contract and that’s that, if tesla wants more money tell them to pound sand. If they made a “mistake” then tell them that’s their cost of doing business when hiring incompetent employees.
 

kkillebrew

Banned
Jun 23, 2019
401
124
austin, tx
Hi,

I'm needing some advice and help with a current situation that may be grounds for a Class Action for all Model S and Model X owners who started their Lease anytime from April 2019 until now.

Would particularly appreciate any help from a lawyer who may know if this is some sort of violation or something and if you'd like to maybe be involved if this is.

It's a quite simple matter really, but Tesla is making it a huge issue, so wanted to share here, because although it may be small and simple, it's a huge deceptive and misleading "hidden fee" that I guarantee the majority of Model S and Model X Lease owners have no idea about. Not even the Sales Reps know/knew about it even after I told them.

It involves the End of Lease Buy Out price.

All the sales reps I spoke with via Phone in Fremont, and in Store in Southern California told me the buy out price for a Lease car is simply the Residual Value + Sales Tax. That's how my previous Tesla Lease was as well. So I got my new car delivered in August, a week later tesla emails me saying there was an electronic error with my signature and I have to sign again. I go to sign again and double check the numbers on the agreement and notice that the Residual Value is different than the Buy Out Price. I ask for them to fix it before I sign, they say no we won't, there is a new "$350 purchase fee" that is added to the buyout price now, that started in April 2019.

The Lease agreement has every single cost itemized regarding the costs of everything, but Nowhere on the agreement does it have this alleged "$350 Purchase fee" line itemized, and like I mentioned above, it was never disclosed to me beforehand even when I explicitly asked about buyout price and terms, because literally not even the Sales Reps knew about it. The only reason I found the discrepancy was by comparing the residual value to the buy out price on the agreement because my plan was/is to buy the car out at lease end.

I'm sure all other Model S/X leasees across the board were not disclosed of this fee, yet were deceivingly asked to sign off on it.

I still haven't signed the agreement out of principle that this was not what the sales rep sold me or what I agreed to, and I have been going back and forth with so many of Tesla's departments and even my sales rep to try and resolve this, but they are giving sooo much aggressive push back it's crazy. All for a $350 fee on a $100,000 car.

Given that this "purchase fee" was never disclosed in writing or verbally beforehand, plus it is not even line itemized in the Lease agreement at all besides it being baked into the buyout price, is this some sort of Disclosure Law Violation or violation at all? And if so, I feel every single Model S and Model X Leasee from April 2019 is affected and possibly victim of this misleading info/fee that may have grounds for a Class Action?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!
Starman
Hi,

I'm needing some advice and help with a current situation that may be grounds for a Class Action for all Model S and Model X owners who started their Lease anytime from April 2019 until now.

Would particularly appreciate any help from a lawyer who may know if this is some sort of violation or something and if you'd like to maybe be involved if this is.

It's a quite simple matter really, but Tesla is making it a huge issue, so wanted to share here, because although it may be small and simple, it's a huge deceptive and misleading "hidden fee" that I guarantee the majority of Model S and Model X Lease owners have no idea about. Not even the Sales Reps know/knew about it even after I told them.

It involves the End of Lease Buy Out price.

All the sales reps I spoke with via Phone in Fremont, and in Store in Southern California told me the buy out price for a Lease car is simply the Residual Value + Sales Tax. That's how my previous Tesla Lease was as well. So I got my new car delivered in August, a week later tesla emails me saying there was an electronic error with my signature and I have to sign again. I go to sign again and double check the numbers on the agreement and notice that the Residual Value is different than the Buy Out Price. I ask for them to fix it before I sign, they say no we won't, there is a new "$350 purchase fee" that is added to the buyout price now, that started in April 2019.

The Lease agreement has every single cost itemized regarding the costs of everything, but Nowhere on the agreement does it have this alleged "$350 Purchase fee" line itemized, and like I mentioned above, it was never disclosed to me beforehand even when I explicitly asked about buyout price and terms, because literally not even the Sales Reps knew about it. The only reason I found the discrepancy was by comparing the residual value to the buy out price on the agreement because my plan was/is to buy the car out at lease end.

I'm sure all other Model S/X leasees across the board were not disclosed of this fee, yet were deceivingly asked to sign off on it.

I still haven't signed the agreement out of principle that this was not what the sales rep sold me or what I agreed to, and I have been going back and forth with so many of Tesla's departments and even my sales rep to try and resolve this, but they are giving sooo much aggressive push back it's crazy. All for a $350 fee on a $100,000 car.

Given that this "purchase fee" was never disclosed in writing or verbally beforehand, plus it is not even line itemized in the Lease agreement at all besides it being baked into the buyout price, is this some sort of Disclosure Law Violation or violation at all? And if so, I feel every single Model S and Model X Leasee from April 2019 is affected and possibly victim of this misleading info/fee that may have grounds for a Class Action?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!


Starman this has been discussed pretty widely and the issue is that a lease is simply another way of financing - a way of making lower payments for the most part, if the truth be known. In effect you are asking for special terms and conditions to boot. Tesla only has an obligation to the owner of the car whomever that may be. You can be sure that the car will get upgraded whether you own it or the leasing company sells it.

If Tesla is liable then they are liable to ALL FSD owners that have waited as long as you have for not producing the product in a timely manner - but it has nothing to do with a the lease or the terms to which you agreed... Not saying you don't have a beef, just that it is a separate issue from the lease. Leasing does not and should not give anyone the right to special compensation above those who have purchased outright or financed in a different manner.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,513
3,844
Northern California
Starman



Starman this has been discussed pretty widely and the issue is that a lease is simply another way of financing - a way of making lower payments for the most part, if the truth be known. In effect you are asking for special terms and conditions to boot. Tesla only has an obligation to the owner of the car whomever that may be. You can be sure that the car will get upgraded whether you own it or the leasing company sells it.

If Tesla is liable then they are liable to ALL FSD owners that have waited as long as you have for not producing the product in a timely manner - but it has nothing to do with a the lease or the terms to which you agreed... Not saying you don't have a beef, just that it is a separate issue from the lease. Leasing does not and should not give anyone the right to special compensation above those who have purchased outright or financed in a different manner.
What?
 
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kkillebrew

Banned
Jun 23, 2019
401
124
austin, tx
You want to sue over 350.00 dollars on a 100,000.00 dollar car?

Are you really rich enough to buy this car? Rich people do not piss their time away like this. It costs them way too much money.

Don’t have any good advice to give you.

It's the "Me Too!" movement. Similar to the cancel culture, no real thought behind anything and you are vilified for having a different opinion.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,804
35,199
Oregon
So I got my new car delivered in August, a week later tesla emails me saying there was an electronic error with my signature and I have to sign again.

I go to sign again and double check the numbers on the agreement and notice that the Residual Value is different than the Buy Out Price. I ask for them to fix it before I sign, they say no we won't, there is a new "$350 purchase fee" that is added to the buyout price now, that started in April 2019.

...

I still haven't signed the agreement out of principle that this was not what the sales rep sold me or what I agreed to,

Did the original document you sign include the same Buy Out Price that the "new" agreement has? (i.e. they didn't change the contract between the first time you signed and the second time they are asking you to sign it.)

So it sounds like you don't have a valid lease agreement with Tesla. How are they going to handle that if you continue to re-sign the agreement? Make you return the car?

If you haven’t agreed to the $350 and haven’t signed the new papers, you haven’t lost that $350. If you haven’t lost it, you haven’t been hurt so you have no damages to recover, so can’t sue. That said, I’m sure you can but it will be dismissed.

He did sign the agreement, but there was an issue with his e-signature so they asked him to sign it again.

You didn't sign for the $350 fee so Tesla should honor that even though it was its own mistake for providing you one without the fee and now it wants to correct that mistake and has you sign up the new fee.

From what he said he did sign it once.
 

D.E.

Uncorked
Oct 12, 2016
761
980
Ann Arbor, MI
Did the original document you sign include the same Buy Out Price that the "new" agreement has? (i.e. they didn't change the contract between the first time you signed and the second time they are asking you to sign it.)

So it sounds like you don't have a valid lease agreement with Tesla. How are they going to handle that if you continue to re-sign the agreement? Make you return the car?



He did sign the agreement, but there was an issue with his e-signature so they asked him to sign it again.



From what he said he did sign it once.

I think you missed the point of his post.

He said there was a difference in the original contract and the contract they presented him when requesting he re-sign. So if the contract is altered, it is a different contract. This means he signed the original contract but not the new one. This is not the same as signing the original contract again.

If the two contracts were not identical then the issue of the problem with original e-signature may have been lie in order to have him sign a new contract, replacing the old one. According to him, the second contract was presented to him as identical to the original when, in fact it wasn’t identical, it required an additional $350 payment.
 
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VikH

Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,045
920
Midwest, USA
Hi,

I'm needing some advice and help with a current situation that may be grounds for a Class Action for all Model S and Model X owners who started their Lease anytime from April 2019 until now.

Would particularly appreciate any help from a lawyer who may know if this is some sort of violation or something and if you'd like to maybe be involved if this is.

It's a quite simple matter really, but Tesla is making it a huge issue, so wanted to share here, because although it may be small and simple, it's a huge deceptive and misleading "hidden fee" that I guarantee the majority of Model S and Model X Lease owners have no idea about. Not even the Sales Reps know/knew about it even after I told them.

It involves the End of Lease Buy Out price.

All the sales reps I spoke with via Phone in Fremont, and in Store in Southern California told me the buy out price for a Lease car is simply the Residual Value + Sales Tax. That's how my previous Tesla Lease was as well. So I got my new car delivered in August, a week later tesla emails me saying there was an electronic error with my signature and I have to sign again. I go to sign again and double check the numbers on the agreement and notice that the Residual Value is different than the Buy Out Price. I ask for them to fix it before I sign, they say no we won't, there is a new "$350 purchase fee" that is added to the buyout price now, that started in April 2019.

The Lease agreement has every single cost itemized regarding the costs of everything, but Nowhere on the agreement does it have this alleged "$350 Purchase fee" line itemized, and like I mentioned above, it was never disclosed to me beforehand even when I explicitly asked about buyout price and terms, because literally not even the Sales Reps knew about it. The only reason I found the discrepancy was by comparing the residual value to the buy out price on the agreement because my plan was/is to buy the car out at lease end.

I'm sure all other Model S/X leasees across the board were not disclosed of this fee, yet were deceivingly asked to sign off on it.

I still haven't signed the agreement out of principle that this was not what the sales rep sold me or what I agreed to, and I have been going back and forth with so many of Tesla's departments and even my sales rep to try and resolve this, but they are giving sooo much aggressive push back it's crazy. All for a $350 fee on a $100,000 car.

Given that this "purchase fee" was never disclosed in writing or verbally beforehand, plus it is not even line itemized in the Lease agreement at all besides it being baked into the buyout price, is this some sort of Disclosure Law Violation or violation at all? And if so, I feel every single Model S and Model X Leasee from April 2019 is affected and possibly victim of this misleading info/fee that may have grounds for a Class Action?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!

Ghost em. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Don't answer their emails or phone calls. Then step it up a notch and send bounce-back emails and fill up your voicemail box.
 
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