Leaf 2016 for $13k - mistake?

[gabeincal]

Bought one! Super fun to drive, looks very economic, might just be the best runaround that you can get in the EV world...

2014 11k miles, $7,000.

 

[gene]

I have a friend with the orange 500E and the all white interior. She calls it "The Creamsicle".

I love the way the Fiat looks and drives. The reason that I bought a Leaf as a loaner as I knew I would be loaning the car to people with young kids. They would definitely prefer rear doors and some cargo space. The Fiat would be too small to demonstrate the ease of use and utility of EV's.

 

[gabeincal]

I love the way the Fiat looks and drives. The reason that I bought a Leaf as a loaner as I knew I would be loaning the car to people with young kids. They would definitely prefer rear doors and some cargo space. The Fiat would be too small to demonstrate the ease of use and utility of EV's.

Absolutely agree. The Leaf and the Fiat are in a different value prop. I like that Fiat batteries are not degrading yet, potentially due to the active thermal management that the Leaf doesn't have... But yeah, this is NOT a family car, nor is a car for more than 2 people really.

 

[NCC-1701-T]

So my old Tacoma is kinda falling apart and I'm looking at selling it and picking up a used Leaf to bridge the gap before my Model 3 is available. My commute is only 10 miles each way and we have plenty of chargers at work so the Leaf should be fine for my needs. Wife has a Mazda 3 hatch we can use for long distance.

My question is what should I look for as far as battery degradation? I'm seeing vehicles with anywhere from 20k to 45k miles in the sub $10k range. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers!

 

[gabeincal]

So my old Tacoma is kinda falling apart and I'm looking at selling it and picking up a used Leaf to bridge the gap before my Model 3 is available. My commute is only 10 miles each way and we have plenty of chargers at work so the Leaf should be fine for my needs. Wife has a Mazda 3 hatch we can use for long distance.

My question is what should I look for as far as battery degradation? I'm seeing vehicles with anywhere from 20k to 45k miles in the sub $10k range. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers!

I'm by no means a Leaf expert but age (esp. in high temp areas) seem to matter more than mileage. S models used to have smaller batteries than SV and SL models. Also, of course equipment differences are present between S/SV/SL trims. Because of the boring drive, high degradation and low range, we opted for the fiat. So cheap and so much more fun with no degradation due to the more sophisticated active thermal management of the battery that Leaves don't have -> hence the bad degradation.

 

[NCC-1701-T]

I'm by no means a Leaf expert but age (esp. in high temp areas) seem to matter more than mileage. S models used to have smaller batteries than SV and SL models. Also, of course equipment differences are present between S/SV/SL trims. Because of the boring drive, high degradation and low range, we opted for the fiat. So cheap and so much more fun with no degradation due to the more sophisticated active thermal management of the battery that Leaves don't have -> hence the bad degradation.

That's good info. Thanks. Unfortunately Fiat isn't an option for us since we're expecting a kiddo in June. But damn they are cheap used.

 

[swaltner]

@NCC-1701-T, do you understand the capacity bars and how they are displayed on the dash? I'd aim for a Leaf that has 11 or 12 capacity bars remaining. That should have the battery capacity to make your 20 mile round trip in all weather conditions.

If you're not familiar with the Leaf dash, the capacity bars are the skinny bars in the battery gauge. These rate the current total battery capacity. The larger bars show the state of charge within that total capacity. You could have a severely degraded battery (8 of 12 capacity bars) that was fully charged (12 of 12 wide bars).

Here's a picture of my dash from a few months ago. The dash shows 11 of 12 capacity bars (I've lost about 10% battery capacity in 3 years and 36,000 miles of driving). Within that ~21.5 kWh of remaining capacity (90% of 24 kWh original capacity), I was charged to 79% state if charge (10 of 12 bars). Based of the recent driving, that was estimated to yield 68 miles of range. I took this picture on the morning that I lost my first capacity bar...

 

[MIT_S60]

So my old Tacoma is kinda falling apart and I'm looking at selling it and picking up a used Leaf to bridge the gap before my Model 3 is available. My commute is only 10 miles each way and we have plenty of chargers at work so the Leaf should be fine for my needs. Wife has a Mazda 3 hatch we can use for long distance.

My question is what should I look for as far as battery degradation? I'm seeing vehicles with anywhere from 20k to 45k miles in the sub $10k range. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers!

2011-2012: Models most susceptible to capacity loss, with many getting warranty replacement battery packs due to losing 4 out of 12 capacity bars. These years do not offer a 6.6 kW charger, with the max being 3.3 kW.
2013-2014: These models have a slightly better battery chemistry (less capacity loss). The cheaper S trim was released, without the navigation screen and without the heat pump (heat pump offers more efficient heating).
2015: The "lizard" battery chemistry was released which supposedly is more heat tolerant. The capacity loss warranty is still 5 year/60k miles on this battery, but it seems to be performing a bit better than the 2013/2014.
2016: SV+SL trims offer the 30 kWh battery size (and very late model year S trims). The 30 kWh LEAF increased the capacity loss warranty to 8 year/100k miles on. The 3G Carwings/Nissan ConnectEV nav screen has a few minor updates.

At some point the backup camera became standard even on the S trim, and heated front/rear seats + heated steering wheel became standard (not sure if this is the case anymore). I would only purchase a car with 6.6 kW charging (for faster charging speeds at public chargers) and L3 CHAdeMO port (makes it easier to sell your car down the road, although you might not find yourself using it too frequently).

 

[gene]

So my old Tacoma is kinda falling apart and I'm looking at selling it and picking up a used Leaf to bridge the gap before my Model 3 is available. My commute is only 10 miles each way and we have plenty of chargers at work so the Leaf should be fine for my needs. Wife has a Mazda 3 hatch we can use for long distance.

My question is what should I look for as far as battery degradation? I'm seeing vehicles with anywhere from 20k to 45k miles in the sub $10k range. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers!

As others have pointed out. Look for 11 to 12 bars on the battery indicators on the right side of gauges. 2013 and newer is a good idea. Anaheim Pre Owned cars in Anaheim California has a web site with 60 or so cars. They always include a picture of the battery condition bars. Also, take a look at the Carfax to be sure the car was not owned in a super hot area. Most of Anaheim's cars seem to come from SF Bay Area. In my case I bought a superb condition 2013 S, with Quickcharge port and with 25k miles for $7400 from Anaheim. That was two months ago, the prices are even lower now! Anaheim will ship to you cheap.

I have recently had two friends buy 2013 Leafs, both 12 bars, one was 20k miles, the other 17K miles, both with Quickcharge. These friends paid only $7200 from Star Motors in Reseda, CA. The seller's name is Dave @ 818-272-3917. His website only shows a couple of Leaf's but best to call him as his website is lame.

 

[ChrisPDX]

I highly recommend getting a ODBII BlueTooth adapter and LeafSpy for your phone. This will tell you the number of QCs and actual percentage of battery capacity. The battery can actually lose about 15% before the first bar on the dash drops. After that, it's about 6% loss per bar. When I purchased my Leaf, I had several to pick from the lot (all with 12 bars). However, the lowest mileage car had 86% capacity, so it was about to lose a bar. The one I went with had more mileage but 94.8% capacity. Amazing the difference between a car driven in Washington versus California!

It's really great to be able to go in with LeafSpy and make a good determination as to which one is the "best on the lot".

 

[NCC-1701-T]

Wow thank you everyone. You've all given me a wealth of information and I am infinitely more equipped to make an informed decision now. Thank you again! You're all awesome.