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Leaf and Volt "torquey"? Really?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Slackjaw, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Slackjaw

    Slackjaw Member

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    Always nice to see any pro-Tesla media coverage, but is this guy smoking crack, comparing the Roadster, Leaf and Volt? Just curious because I haven't driven or even seen any of those cars...

    complete article:

    from "Silent Sales Success: Plug-In Electric Cars"
     
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #2 TEG, Apr 14, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
    The specs for the Leaf (280 Nm / 207 ft-lbs.) actually showing it as having similar peak torque to the 2008 base Roadster!
    Nissan Leaf (2010) - maximum torque

    But, other factors such as width of the torque peak, weight, gearing and max battery current output leave the Leaf no where near as capable acceleration-wise as a Roadster.
    I have driven them back to back and it is a huge difference for sure.

    But I think the point of the article was just to say that electric motors do well torque wise compared to their ICE counterparts for a similar vehicle.
    The Leaf feels peppy for an entry level family car.
    The Roadster feels peppy for a sports car.
     
  3. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    I wonder how ESFlow will compare to Roadster whenever it comes out.
     
  4. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    It definately will not be 3.7s 0-60mph. If Nissan uses off the shelf parts from the Leaf, like the have mentioned, it's probably going to be rather sad.
     
  5. benji4

    benji4 Roadster 2.5 #0476

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    < 5 sec.

    asahi.com NISSAN ESFLOW - Putting the spark into electric vehicles - English
     
  6. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Would it make that much of a difference if it was 4.5 sec - esp. for a third of the price ?
     
  7. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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  8. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    I think you are dreaming if you think that the Esflow will cost 1/3 of the roadster.
     
  9. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    #9 EVNow, Apr 17, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
    I know you are hoping it doesn't - but there isn't much difference in terms of material cost between Leaf & ESFlow to make it cost much more than Leaf.

    BTW, are you following ESFlow story enough to know the details (since you apparently didn't know about the less than 5 sec) ? Nissan has already talked about the likely price, if it gets made.

    Nissan ESFlow Electric Sportscar Concept: 10 Facts You Didn't Know

    One more thing. Nissan is unvieling a new "zero emission motorsports concept" on Wednesday (20th).

    http://www.hittv.com/NissanNY11evite.html

     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Um dual motors instead of one (which likely means dual inverters too).
    Carbon Fiber/Aluminum instead of steel.
    I bet that price quote is somewhat optimistic. They claim it wouldn't cost much more than a Leaf, but does seem to have more expensive technology within.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, those are probably just for the concept and not required in the actual vehicle (they can go with single motors and no carbon fiber and still have similar performance).

    The significant additional cost will likely be 50% more batteries (since it targets 150 miles and more batteries would be required anyways for more performance). A power electronics upgrade to handle the additional power, and a motor upgrade (either dual or a higher performance single motor) will probably be required too.
     
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    If you get rid of the carbon fiber, aluminum then the weight suggestion is probably way off.
    If you add more batteries even more weight.
    The dual motors was supposed to be an easy way to take existing Leaf tech and make it work in a performance car.
    Anyways, it sounds like maybe the specs could be very subject to change. I would bet something among weight, performance, and price is likely to change.
    Assuming they even decide to make it.
     
  13. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Nissan is losing money on every Leaf sold, but they are going to make a 2200lb car with 35+kwh batteries that does 0-60 in under 5 sec for under $40k?

    Any realistic person would be very suspect.
     
  14. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I'm thinking it's going to cost $45-$50K, not be under 5 sec 0-60, and weigh more than 2200lbs. Even so I think it would fill a popular vehicle segment and sell very well at less than half the price of a Roadster. I haven't been this enthusiastic about a car since the Roadster, and though it wouldn't make sense for me to buy one I could actually afford it. I'm sure there are a lot of people with a similar mindset.
     
  15. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    But, then you are in base model S price territory, with possibly better performance, range, much roomier......

    I would like to see it built(the more Ev's, the better), but I won't hold my breath.
     
  16. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    True but the S is really much larger than I would want, and a sports car isn't really the same market segment as the S. Plus I really love the look of the ESflow. Frankly if the S can come in around $50K for the base model that's a good indication that the ESflow could come in under $45K.
     
  17. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    No. It is supposed to have 24kwh battery that Leaf has but get better mileage because of lighter weight. 150 miles would be LA04, I guess.
     
  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    And better cdA I'd imagine.
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I find it unlikely it can get 150 miles on LA4. That would peg the Roadster at 330 miles on LA4, but it only got 230 miles on the same cycle (254 miles if you adjust it for the higher 244 mile rating it gets today vs 221 it got before).

    Given the 350Z/370Z weighed 3200lbs at its lightest configuration, I find it unlikely they will get it to even the 2700lbs the Roadster weighs (without drastic measures like the carbon fiber chassis they used in the Leaf RC, which would raise the price significantly). And CdA plays minimal role in the LA4 city cycle (it might help in highway though).

    Plus from the reports of the Leaf, the 24kWh pack can only output 90kW peak. If they don't increase the capacity, they will have to upgrade the pack to one with a higher discharge rate. Either way the pack will likely cost more money vs a Leaf 24kWh pack.
     
  20. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    That is just the rated motor power. Battery's is much higher ...
     

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