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Leaf -vs- Volt
- Thread starter doug
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- Electric Vehicles
EVNow
Well-Known Member
For people driving very high miles, I'm not sure EVs will work. Even with S, we should consider the battery. Typically 1,000 full charges before the capacity slips below 80% - and that will come in just 3 years, if charged from near empty every day.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
That looks somewhat arbitrary - with no real intensity levels or frequencies mentioned. Is red on Leaf at the same level as red on Volt in those graphs ?
It is also suspect that all the members of one of the MT staff family had a headache after riding in Leaf while not one of the 2,000 owners to date have complained about this. How likely is that ?!
Considering MT chose Volt over Leaf for the car of the year award, I suspect they aren't being unbiased.
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Yes, at which point the car will have done more than 250,000 miles, without any other service... long past the point at which most ICE cars have had multiple major repair jobs, like two timing chains.
If you charge the 300 mile Model S from near empty every day - lets call that 240 miles driven.
240 miles * 365 days = 87600 miles. A luxury car in the class of a Model S would be lucky to get 22mpg ( most are probably 18-22 )
At 22mpg thats 3981 gallons of gas. Gas is likely to average no less than $4 a gallon ( in the U.S. ) over the next 3 years, probably more.
Thats $15927 per year or $47781 over 3 years. ( Premium would be around $4.30 and every luxury BMW needs that, so $51365 in premium )
After 3 years, you buy a new battery for $30000 and sell the old one ( that now is only a 240 mile battery ) for $10000, costing you $20000
You are still way ahead.
The more you drive, the better EVs look - if the range constraint suits your needs.
240 miles * 365 days = 87600 miles. A luxury car in the class of a Model S would be lucky to get 22mpg ( most are probably 18-22 )
At 22mpg thats 3981 gallons of gas. Gas is likely to average no less than $4 a gallon ( in the U.S. ) over the next 3 years, probably more.
Thats $15927 per year or $47781 over 3 years. ( Premium would be around $4.30 and every luxury BMW needs that, so $51365 in premium )
After 3 years, you buy a new battery for $30000 and sell the old one ( that now is only a 240 mile battery ) for $10000, costing you $20000
You are still way ahead.
The more you drive, the better EVs look - if the range constraint suits your needs.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Ok, but the math is similar for the 160 mile range Model S.
If you drive 120 miles per day, 365 days per year thats 43800 miles. Thats 1990 gallons per year and $7963 per year or $23890 over 3 years ( $25682 if premium gas )
*If* you need a new battery in 3 years - it will probably cost you $10000 - $12000, so you are winning.
But there is a better answer: don't buy the 160 mile Model S, buy the 230 mile Model S. The battery will most likely not need replacing for at least twice that long.
If it needed replacement after 6 years - a comperable gas car would have cost you $47000 + in gasoline and a replacement 230 mile battery will be in the $10000 - $12000 ballpark.
The high mileage driver needs to heed the advice of which battery pack to buy and the expectation of replacement cost, they have a lot of money at stake.
If you drive 120 miles per day, 365 days per year thats 43800 miles. Thats 1990 gallons per year and $7963 per year or $23890 over 3 years ( $25682 if premium gas )
*If* you need a new battery in 3 years - it will probably cost you $10000 - $12000, so you are winning.
But there is a better answer: don't buy the 160 mile Model S, buy the 230 mile Model S. The battery will most likely not need replacing for at least twice that long.
If it needed replacement after 6 years - a comperable gas car would have cost you $47000 + in gasoline and a replacement 230 mile battery will be in the $10000 - $12000 ballpark.
The high mileage driver needs to heed the advice of which battery pack to buy and the expectation of replacement cost, they have a lot of money at stake.
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Don't leave out the regular servicing of the internal combustion engine. Filters, fluids, belts, etc need to be included while an S would have a fractional amount of these type replacements. After 100,000 miles the ICE engine rebuild will cost when an AC motor is good for ten times that.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It all depends on what ICE you are comparing to but I guess you completely left out intitial extra cost of 160 mile S (and the electricity cost).
But, I wonder what high mileage people normally do in terms of which cars they buy - or do they lease, if for business.
Some interesting discussoin here ...
200,000 Mile Club - PriusChat Forums
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Nik
Got there eventually :-)
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes - in the thread I linked - there are people have driven ICE for 600K miles - and apparently Prius without any problems for over 200K miles.
I think a reasonable comparison car for the Model S would be the BMW 535i and fueleconomy.gov says that it gets 22mpg combined.
Thats the car I used - it's base price in the $52000 ballpark. So yes, it would be $8000 less than a 230 mile range Model S.
The Model S is actually slightly quicker, and should have significantly more interior room.
You're right, I ignored the electricity cost. The electricity cost to drive 43800 miles at 350wh/mile and 11 cents per kWh is $1686.
Thats the car I used - it's base price in the $52000 ballpark. So yes, it would be $8000 less than a 230 mile range Model S.
The Model S is actually slightly quicker, and should have significantly more interior room.
You're right, I ignored the electricity cost. The electricity cost to drive 43800 miles at 350wh/mile and 11 cents per kWh is $1686.
SByer
'08 #383
How about we just end all subsidies - upstream and for road use tax issues - for oil, and let the consumer decide what fits their needs? No, the Volt isn't an EV, it's got stupid extra maintenance, but as long as gas is so waaaay overly cheap, it looks better to the average joe than it should.
ljbad4life
Member
I would have to disagree with you on that final point. Until fast charging infrastructure is available outside of the precious few states that have them, the Volt will continue to be a viable option. Gas for the volt isn't cheap, it uses premium (gas is cheap when compared to the rest of the world, but gas is more expensive than electricity).
Take me for example, I live in NYC and I have access to a charging in my residence, out side of that, there are 2-3 (single) charges in a city of 10 million. there are no charging stations on long island and no fast chargers in the north east. a 100 mile range would put me in severe peril of running out of juice. frequently.
I don't take mammoth cross country trips, but if I need to make a trip to riverhead (75 miles) or the hamptons,(75 miles) or to stratford (75 miles) I could not in a leaf. The Leaf's range isn't 100 miles at highway speeds. I don't take these trips every day, but a couple of times a month is the norm.
So that leaves me with only 2 options a 300 mile Model S or a Chevy Volt. The 300 mile Model S would be able to make the trips back and forth with energy to spare. The volt would make the trip, albeit burning some gas, but I look at it this way, how much gas will be burned when a tow truck will have to come pick me up from the side of the road in a leaf. I personally do not want to own 2 cars. I don't consider the Fisker Karma a viable option for me.
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