Lease Returns After Buying FSD

[electronblue]

So True!!! I can't believe this thread. Every single argument I have read is also true for those who purchased through regular means... This is just too much. People expect Tesla to produce the most sophisticated car in the world within the times frames of their own, short sighted personal mistakes? Has anyone actually considered the ramifications here? If lease owners have a right to a refund, then how does that affect the future value of the car. You leased the car to get cheaper payments, now you want special terms and conditions to boot?

Wake up.

Clearly you are ignorant of the past.

The problem is Tesla so far has delivered 0 features for FSD purchased in 2016. NO features at all. Everyone with EAP (Enhanced Autopilot that was then sold alongside FSD) has the same features as people with FSD bought back then.

Tesla promised to ship FSD differentiating features by summer 2017. They did not.

Now it seems first leases will end before anything for FSD is delivered. 0 features delivered for $3000 worth of functionality leased.

This is about a broken delivery promise by Tesla.

I can’t see a better case for refund than lack of delivery, don’t you?

Actually Tesla should refund anyone who bought it, too, if they so would choose...

 

[kkillebrew]

Clearly you are ignorant of the past.

The problem is Tesla so far has delivered 0 features for FSD purchased in 2016. NO features at all. Everyone with EAP (Enhanced Autopilot that was then sold alongside FSD) has the same features as people with FSD bought back then.

Tesla promised to ship features by summer 2017. They did not.

Now it seems first leases will end before anything for FSD is delivered.

This is about a broken promise by Tesla and 0 features delivered for $3000 worth of functionality leased.

I can’t see a better case for refund than lack of delivery, don’t you?

Yes I can . Then they are responsible to the owners. I am not ignorant of the past you have not correctly separated the issues. The lease part is irrelevant.

 

[electronblue]

Yes I can . Then they are responsible to the owners. I am not ignorant of the past you have not correctly separated the issues. The lease part is irrelevant.

Yes, Tesla is responsible for refunding for undelivery. Everyone, not just lease holders. But lease holders are the ones getting hurt the most so I would give them priority as a simply the right thing to do.

 

[ewoodrick]

So True!!! I can't believe this thread. Every single argument I have read is also true for those who purchased through regular means... This is just too much. People expect Tesla to produce the most sophisticated car in the world within the times frames of their own, short sighted personal mistakes? Has anyone actually considered the ramifications here? If lease owners have a right to a refund, then how does that affect the future value of the car. You leased the car to get cheaper payments, now you want special terms and conditions to boot?

Wake up.

As I was reading this, maybe there is a little right for a refund, but to the owner, not the leasee

 

[kkillebrew]

Yes, Tesla is responsible for refunding for undelivery. Everyone, not just lease holders. But lease holders are the ones getting hurt the most so I would give them priority as a simply the right thing to do.

I would not disagree there... It is likely that Tesla foresaw something like this as a possibility and they do tout the lease, it makes the cars easier to buy. But then you do have to consider the viewpoint of those who paid up front... it's going to be different. And if you DO get FSD before lease end what did you really get? You still have to abide by the agreement or buy it out.

To me this whole issue is similar to buying tech stocks... if you buy on margin it's a slippery slope sometimes, especially when buying promises.

I did not seem to sound mean or unfeeling I know we all love our Tesla's, but blaming the lease part is opening a pandora's box.

 

[electronblue]

I would not disagree there... It is likely that Tesla foresaw something like this as a possibility and they do tout the lease, it makes the cars easier to buy. But then you do have to consider the viewpoint of those who paid up front... it's going to be different. And if you DO get FSD before lease end what did you really get? You still have to abide by the agreement or buy it out.

To me this whole issue is similar to buying tech stocks... if you buy on margin it's a slippery slope sometimes, especially when buying promises.

I did not seem to sound mean or unfeeling I know we all love our Tesla's, but blaming the lease part is opening a pandora's box.

The risk and reward should go hand in hand. When buying stock there is an upside. When pre-ordering product there is much less reward so there should be much less risk. Usually unfulfilled pre-orders result in a refund, especially in a normal consumer transaction such as when buying or leasing a car.

As for the viewpoint of those who paid up front, I paid up front for FSD back then and I would gladly give lessees the first dibs on refunds (the refund could of course be relative to what they actually paid for it minus residual, if any). Simply because it would sound like the ethical thing to do in my view.

It would be ethical to offer a refund option for everyone of course.

 

[kkillebrew]

The risk and reward should go hand in hand. When buying stock there is an upside. When pre-ordering product there is much less reward so there should be much less risk. Usually unfulfilled pre-orders result in a refund, especially in a normal consumer transaction such as when buying or leasing a car.

As for the viewpoint of those who paid up front, I paid up front for FSD back then and I would gladly give lessees the first dibs on refunds (the refund could of course be relative to what they actually paid for it minus residual, if any). Simply because it would sound like the ethical thing to do in my view.

It would be ethical to offer a refund option for everyone of course.

Agreed. I too paid up front but just three months ago, and so I would gladly defer for a period of time. What I am unclear on, admittedly, is just what do I have now with HW2.5 and $6000 less in my bank account, than if I had not purchased FSD?

 

[Az_Rael]

Every single argument I have read is also true for those who purchased through regular means

I agree, this is not an issue for just leased cars.

Out of curiosity, do you have a timeframe that you would consider Tesla having not delivered on FSD to be unreasonable? What if it takes them 10 years? I think most people would find that unreasonable and want a refund. What about 5 years? Some people’s timeframe for reasonable delivery period was 3 years and Tesla didn’t make that. Remember Tesla advertised in 2016 like they were on the cusp of FSD. They had a really cool video even. I don’t blame folks at all for thinking Tesla would get it done in less than 3 years and choosing to add the feature to their leased cars.

Agreed. I too paid up front but just three months ago, and so I would gladly defer for a period of time. What I am unclear on, admittedly, is just what do I have now with HW2.5 and $6000 less in my bank account, than if I had not purchased FSD?

If you bought the “new” FSD package, you already have your FSD features. NoA, Autopark, and Summon/Smart Summon are your delivered features. If you removed the package you would lose those items.

The old FSD package was only for sale until about Feb 2019. For the “old” FSD package buyers, they could remove the package and not lose any features, because the features I listed above were part of the EAP package. I could have saved $3000 in 2017 and still had the exact same car and features to enjoy. The very first FSD feature I will get is the computer hardware upgrade.