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StoXto3toY
Member
The problem with this answer is this: when you want low compliance (ie increased stiffness) you usually want low height, but the air suspension increase compliance when you lower the height, so you don't get what you want. I find it frustrating, usually leave the suspension set to medium normal height and only elevate it for ground clearance. I pretty much never lower it...
ig_epower
Member
I agree with the above. The lower suspension setting also causes uneven tire wear (especially the back tires). As for the level turns, I also have a Porsche Cayenne with PDCC (active suspension) and considering that the MS' suspension is passive, it compares quite well against the Porsche. They are almost identical in gross weight (2,100 kg).
I have driven both, once took an AS car to the mountains for the weekend. I find AS has more sway than coil in everyday driving. Both my wife and I find it uncomfortable (due to sway) driving the air car at standard height and constantly had to lower it. I prefer coil. Overall the Model S is heavy car so although it has pretty good body control, it's never going to be as agile as smaller cars due to simple physics. I am not sure I really recommend cornering this car that hard like you would a M3 or 911.
If you lowered the car because there was too much sway (i.e. it was too soft) then you were using it wrong. Sorry. As the above posts show, air suspension gets more rigid the HIGHer your car is, and less rigid the lower your car is, which is the exact opposite of what an enthusiast driver would want. But, it still drives quite well, largely because of the physics of a very low center of gravity, and the added body rigidity offered by the battery pack to the car body.
StoXto3toY
Member
One last thing to add..the P85+ on air has what I consider to be significantly less body roll than any other model.
ig_epower
Member
My 2014 P85D has the P85+ suspension setup. It drives nothing like todays PD's. Mine is very stiff and feels very much like a sports car. I like it, wife not as much.
StoXto3toY
Member
My 2014 P85D has the P85+ suspension setup. It drives nothing like todays PD's. Mine is very stiff and feels very much like a sports car. I like it, wife not as much.
Right? I have a Dec 2013 build P85+ and all my friends who have newer MS' (all Ps) can't believe how sporty it is. Personally, this is the only one I'd own.
davidc18
Active Member
I wish all of the P cars had the old + suspension. I find the 70 on coils to be a much better handling car, even on 19" wheels.
My 2013 P85+ is kind of sporty in my opinion. I had the 21" turbines and those made the steering very sensitive but ride quality was somewhat compromised. I picked up a set of the 6 spoke 19" and I think it's a good compromise between comfort and handling. The ride is still a bit harsh in my opinion but that's what get for choosing the + vs a regular p85. I still prefer the handling in my e90 328i wagon (much smaller car obviously), and of course the S2000 is my benchmark.
I've wanted to try out a non + MS but every loaner vehicle i've gotten was a p85+. I've driven 3 different loaner p85+s along with a Infiniti Q70.
ig_epower
Member
Comparing those others cars is also very difficult. My NSX relic will probably have handling characteristics like your S2000. However that is because vehicle dynamics is enhanced due to extremely low weight, decent HP, low CG and so forth. My sports car only has non-assisted steering because the front of the car has no engine there. Thus steering feel is not hampered by a power-assist mechanism.
In the end, we all realize that the other cars have better handling characteristics (in different areas) but they too have their compromises (passenger comfort, space, capacity and so on). When the sum of all that is good about the handling of the MS vs those other cars, I am left with "not bad at all" for a 5 passenger sedan with tons of luggage space, great "fuel economy" and blistering acceleration. Stunning package all around.
My 2014 P85D has the P85+ suspension setup. It drives nothing like todays PD's. Mine is very stiff and feels very much like a sports car. I like it, wife not as much.
They called it + but it's not the same. The pre April 2015 P85D with plus is WAY stiffer than the P85+. I've had P85+ loaners twice and there's no comparison. The P85+ has a nice compliant perfectly balanced suspension for aggressive street driving. The pre April P85D is far stiffer and less compliant losing traction on the smallest bumps around corners because the compression dampening is so stiff the suspension can't compress and comply fast enough.
Don85D
Member
I always thought that flat cornering was a result of stiffer sway bars front and back. The suspension (coil or air) only keeps the rubber on the road when the road surface gets rough.
We chose coils over air only because of the long term reliability. I have seen too many older Mercedes with collapsed air suspension. On the other hand, additional ground clearance on demand in heavy snow would be a benefit.
We chose coils over air only because of the long term reliability. I have seen too many older Mercedes with collapsed air suspension. On the other hand, additional ground clearance on demand in heavy snow would be a benefit.
It's both. The stiffer your spring, the less it will compress in a corner. The more torsional stiffness of your sway bar, the less roll there will since when the car tries to shift to one side which compresses that side, it will pull the other side down with it as well depending on the torsional rigidity.
It's a balancing act. Sway bars that are too stiff will result in the other tire coming up with the opposite side is compressed by going over a bump. Too stiff and you lose traction on the wheel that didn't go over a bump. Less stiffness will result in more roll.
Without some anti sway bar, the suspension would have to be far stiffer just to prevent any roll at all which would make the wheel that actually hits the bump lose traction in a corner.
The air suspension on the Tesla does not adjust as you go around a corner. It only adjust for self leveling while the car is stopped.
Or at least available as an option. Can't help but ask why Tesla killed off the (+) suspension completely, rather than making it an option.
