TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Least Body Roll

Discussion in 'Model S' started by RKtect, Apr 24, 2017.

Tags:
  1. RKtect

    RKtect Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arizona
    Which suspension provides the least body roll during hard cornering maneuvers, standard or air suspension?
     
  2. jevan43

    jevan43 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Orange County, CA USA
  3. ICUDoc

    ICUDoc Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    The problem with this answer is this: when you want low compliance (ie increased stiffness) you usually want low height, but the air suspension increase compliance when you lower the height, so you don't get what you want. I find it frustrating, usually leave the suspension set to medium normal height and only elevate it for ground clearance. I pretty much never lower it...
     
  4. ig_epower

    ig_epower Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Oakville
    I agree with the above. The lower suspension setting also causes uneven tire wear (especially the back tires). As for the level turns, I also have a Porsche Cayenne with PDCC (active suspension) and considering that the MS' suspension is passive, it compares quite well against the Porsche. They are almost identical in gross weight (2,100 kg).
     
  5. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    charlotte, nc
    I have driven both, once took an AS car to the mountains for the weekend. I find AS has more sway than coil in everyday driving. Both my wife and I find it uncomfortable (due to sway) driving the air car at standard height and constantly had to lower it. I prefer coil. Overall the Model S is heavy car so although it has pretty good body control, it's never going to be as agile as smaller cars due to simple physics. I am not sure I really recommend cornering this car that hard like you would a M3 or 911.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Messages:
    641
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    If you lowered the car because there was too much sway (i.e. it was too soft) then you were using it wrong. Sorry. As the above posts show, air suspension gets more rigid the HIGHer your car is, and less rigid the lower your car is, which is the exact opposite of what an enthusiast driver would want. But, it still drives quite well, largely because of the physics of a very low center of gravity, and the added body rigidity offered by the battery pack to the car body.
     
    • Like x 3
  7. jevan43

    jevan43 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Orange County, CA USA
    One last thing to add..the P85+ on air has what I consider to be significantly less body roll than any other model.
     
  8. ig_epower

    ig_epower Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Oakville
    And to be fair - my '15 P85D with AS might have been different for other reasons (like different suspension components because it is a P car - sway bars, etc) vs the '17 75D with coils. It is not exactly an "apples to apples" comparison.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. bradhs

    bradhs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    My 2014 P85D has the P85+ suspension setup. It drives nothing like todays PD's. Mine is very stiff and feels very much like a sports car. I like it, wife not as much. :)
     
    • Like x 4
  10. RKtect

    RKtect Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arizona
    I have only seen fairly old posts concerning P vs. non-P air suspensions. For 2017, are they the same or does the P get a sportier suspension upgrade? If yes, what are the differences?
     
  11. jevan43

    jevan43 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Orange County, CA USA
    Right? I have a Dec 2013 build P85+ and all my friends who have newer MS' (all Ps) can't believe how sporty it is. Personally, this is the only one I'd own.
     
  12. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,192
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    I wish all of the P cars had the old + suspension. I find the 70 on coils to be a much better handling car, even on 19" wheels.
     
  13. xbox4me62

    xbox4me62 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    SF bay area
    My 2013 P85+ is kind of sporty in my opinion. I had the 21" turbines and those made the steering very sensitive but ride quality was somewhat compromised. I picked up a set of the 6 spoke 19" and I think it's a good compromise between comfort and handling. The ride is still a bit harsh in my opinion but that's what get for choosing the + vs a regular p85. I still prefer the handling in my e90 328i wagon (much smaller car obviously), and of course the S2000 is my benchmark.

    I've wanted to try out a non + MS but every loaner vehicle i've gotten was a p85+. I've driven 3 different loaner p85+s along with a Infiniti Q70.
     
  14. ig_epower

    ig_epower Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Oakville
    Comparing those others cars is also very difficult. My NSX relic will probably have handling characteristics like your S2000. However that is because vehicle dynamics is enhanced due to extremely low weight, decent HP, low CG and so forth. My sports car only has non-assisted steering because the front of the car has no engine there. Thus steering feel is not hampered by a power-assist mechanism.

    In the end, we all realize that the other cars have better handling characteristics (in different areas) but they too have their compromises (passenger comfort, space, capacity and so on). When the sum of all that is good about the handling of the MS vs those other cars, I am left with "not bad at all" for a 5 passenger sedan with tons of luggage space, great "fuel economy" and blistering acceleration. Stunning package all around.
     
    • Like x 4
  15. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,404
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    P85+ had the best handling, period. No other Model S variant compares.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    They called it + but it's not the same. The pre April 2015 P85D with plus is WAY stiffer than the P85+. I've had P85+ loaners twice and there's no comparison. The P85+ has a nice compliant perfectly balanced suspension for aggressive street driving. The pre April P85D is far stiffer and less compliant losing traction on the smallest bumps around corners because the compression dampening is so stiff the suspension can't compress and comply fast enough.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. Don85D

    Don85D Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Markham, Ontario
    I always thought that flat cornering was a result of stiffer sway bars front and back. The suspension (coil or air) only keeps the rubber on the road when the road surface gets rough.

    We chose coils over air only because of the long term reliability. I have seen too many older Mercedes with collapsed air suspension. On the other hand, additional ground clearance on demand in heavy snow would be a benefit.
     
  18. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    It's both. The stiffer your spring, the less it will compress in a corner. The more torsional stiffness of your sway bar, the less roll there will since when the car tries to shift to one side which compresses that side, it will pull the other side down with it as well depending on the torsional rigidity.

    It's a balancing act. Sway bars that are too stiff will result in the other tire coming up with the opposite side is compressed by going over a bump. Too stiff and you lose traction on the wheel that didn't go over a bump. Less stiffness will result in more roll.

    Without some anti sway bar, the suspension would have to be far stiffer just to prevent any roll at all which would make the wheel that actually hits the bump lose traction in a corner.


    The air suspension on the Tesla does not adjust as you go around a corner. It only adjust for self leveling while the car is stopped.
     
    • Informative x 1
  19. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Messages:
    641
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Or at least available as an option. Can't help but ask why Tesla killed off the (+) suspension completely, rather than making it an option.
     
  20. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    I wish the same thing. But the P+++++ suspension I have is way too much :eek:
     

Share This Page