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Leather options - Environmental / Ethical

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by TSLA Pilot, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    THIS!

    Sadly unknown to far too many, to include this august forum, the GHG's involved with raising animals to then murder them and cut up for their parts, in addition to being remarkably cruel generates far more GHG's than ALL of transport combined . . .

    Cowspiracy | The Sustainability Secret

    or:

    Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772#.VEJiEPl4rig


    Tesla needs to move away from using any animal parts; making leather mandatory for the P85D is just ignorant as all get out, and a surprisingly large blind spot for an otherwise brilliant company.

    Lastly, for the Luddites out there: there's NO penalty for sitting on something that's not made from the flesh of sentient beings--this from Consumer Reports' recent tests of the latest C- and E-Class models:

    Inside you’ll find the expected Mercedes upscale execution, with a high-quality feel to every surface, switch, and button, and nothing garish or flashy. The artificial-leather upholstery, called MB-Tex, is the most believable fake leather you’ll find anywhere, and honestly, it can pass for the real thing.

    and:

    Fit and finish is impeccable. The faux-leather MB-Tex upholstery on the seats is a stellar imitation. Every panel fits together precisely, and almost all surfaces are covered with soft-touch materials or are dressed in swaths of wood or chrome trim.

    Why is Tesla so far behind on this, especially given that sustainable transport is the company's reason for being?!?
     
  2. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Cattle are not raised to make leather. Leather is a byproduct of the meat industry. If you want to make an impact, don't focus on downstream consumers of a byproduct. Focus on those who cause the product to be created in the first place - beef eaters. Stop eating beef. That is where you should focus your energies because that is where you will make the greatest difference. If all leather consumption ended tomorrow, cows would still be slaughtered for their meat and the skins would go to waste. Not one cow would be saved. Is that a preferable outcome?
     
  3. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Let's stay on topic.

    With the new "P85D" upgrade, Tesla Motors has again made it impossible to order certain MS's without doing unnecessary damage to the planet via production of massive amounts of GHG's that are endemic when raising animals to murder for their parts.

    Heck, along with the above, the recent website Design Center change suggests that if you'd like to be able to see in your trunk you also have to have animals' brains blown out--trunk lighting appears to have been removed unless one orders the $4.5k Premium Interior Package? (Speaking from experience as our first MS had 3 feeble LED lights; our current MS has 1 feeble LED trunk light. What does one expect for $88k?)

    Tesla should know better.

    Lastly, your premise is a common misconception. Just because our parents and teachers told us something decades ago does not make it so. The reality is that our choices have real world consequences--as adults we need to challenge the assumptions handed down to us, especially those that have terrible ethical, moral and environmental consequences.

    Those of us buying Teslas are prime candidates to challenge convention and think in new ways, no?

    Thanks for writing.

    See the following for more info:

    Why leather is NOT a by-product of the meat industry | Vegan Mainstream

    ***********************************************
    Stella McCartney Sheds Light on Leather's Dark Truth
    ***********************************************
    The Shocking Truth About Leather: No, It's Not a Meat Byproduct | Care2 Causes
     
  4. MassModel3

    MassModel3 Member

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    You're right -- you should stay on topic.

    Instead you're using the forum as a rant about how horrible it is to use leather. Okay, you've stated that you and others should have the option of buying the D without sitting on dead animal hide. Fine. Got it. But continuing on with your "Vegan Mainstream" posts and your "if you'd like to be able to see in your trunk you also have to have animals' brains blown out" is very much off topic, don't ya think???!!!
     
  5. FreeOfPge

    FreeOfPge Member

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    +1 for the fabric option. Besides the ethical reasons, leather gives of an odd (fume?) byproduct as it rots, leaving a film on the windows. What is that anyway?
     
  6. Taipan

    Taipan Member

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    I agree 100% with "TSLA Pilot": raising cows for milk and leather is mean and cheap.

    I wish Tesla offered leather from beasts with really good skins, starting with the Big Five.

    Also GamerGate is bad, we love games and women.
     
  7. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    1: Leather does not "rot".
    2: The film on the inside of the windows is not from the leather. My previous car had a fabric interior and the film was worse than the Tesla.
     
  8. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Yup. 1) skin rots, skin becomes leather as you prepare it NOT TO ROT. 2) This called off-gassing and is caused by glues and plastics in the cabin.
     
  9. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Leather seats are good and In 'N Out is even better.
     
  10. FreeOfPge

    FreeOfPge Member

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    I stand corrected! I wash my windows too often to know the difference, but when younger my uncles didn't - you could write your name in the residue on the windows. Pretty gross. I was always told it was caused from the leather breaking down. I have seen this in other, mostly older cars and always associated it with leather, guess that's not the case after all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In 'N'' Out has the BEST grilled cheese on the planet!!!!
     
  11. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Wrong thread. Does - not - compute.
     
  12. rcc

    rcc Model S 85KW, VIN #2236

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    There's more to ecological impact than greenhouse gases.

    Say what you want about beef and leather but when I order prime rib, I'm quite confident that I'm not putting the cow population at risk and that cows can be raised in a sustainable fashion.

    The same sadly cannot be said about seafood. Every fishery that has become popular has been overfished with a few heavily regulated exceptions like Maine lobsters.
     
  13. omgwtfbyobbq

    omgwtfbyobbq Member

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    Cows aren't at any risk, but I don't think current beef production can be sustainable given the land/water requirements. Some fraction of current beef production can probably be sustainable, but we would need to first reduce beef production and then move to sustainable beef production for what was left.

    I do eat beef on occasion, but I don't think I should, and this is reinforced every time I drive through Coalinga and it's blazing hot or pouring rain (I can't actually see much when it's pouring rain, but growing up next to dairies in Mira Loma, I know how nasty and short a cow's life can be in those conditions).
     
  14. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Coalinga is painful ... and eye opening. While I haven't given up meat, I have gone to only purchasing meat from local family farms, where the animals are pasture-raised. No grain or additives, just a big pasture to graze on. No more factory-farmed meat here.
     
  15. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    No, it's the truth.

    I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but that is A GOOD THING. It means that on some level it bothers you.

    MBZ offers a long list of high-end cars that some with leathette (AKA "MB-Tex") and I've provided the comments from Consumer Reports--the group that BUYS about 50 cars a year for testing. They ought to know what a good interior is like . . . .

    Please, take a look at the links above and begin to question the assumptions handed to us as children. Nothing changes for the better until WE change for the better.

    Likewise, Tesla won't make this change until the obvious hypocrisy is pointed out to them. The evidence is overwhelming: one cannot be an environmentalist and purchase animal flesh to sit on or wear.

    Thanks for writing.
     
  16. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    I 100% agree with TESLA Pilot.
    It pains me to see animals slaughtered for food or for leather, whether it is cattle or endangered species.

    Removing even the option of fabric is pretty sad.
     
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    Same here. I can't stand the modern factory farming of animals. It only took watching a few documentaries, and reading articles like the one below, to stop me. Also,pigs are like dogs with very similar temperament and intelligence. If we had factory farms of dogs there'd be a huge outcry. Yet we accept it with pigs for some strange reason I'll never understand. We don't eat a lot of meat but when we do, it only organic free range meat and dairy -- and I never eat meat when out. I also use the opportunity when out at business lunches, etc. to order vegetarian and when asked if I am a vegetarian, I say no but I am against factory farming of animals and I get a lot of positive response.

    9 Facts About Factory Farming That Will Break Your Heart (GRAPHIC PHOTOS)

    I have mixed feelings about the leather seats issue (and clothing, etc.) since it seems more of a by-product that would otherwise go to waste. But perhaps I need to reassess my views on that issue.
     
  18. Chris TX

    Chris TX Active Member

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    I take exception to that: My family raises cattle for a large part of our income. ALL of the cows and bulls have names. They are all treated very well with plenty of green pasture to roam and eat in. They all come when we call them to eat, and we know which ones need to be apart from others so they'll be able to not fight over the hay. For the ones that go to auction/slaughter, they are treated with respect and amazing care. Stressed cattle do not fatten up and do not give you the best return of investment. It's in everyone's best interest to keep the cattle happy and healthy. We do not have penned up cows that stand there and eat, like a lot of those "factory farms" you see in the PETA videos. Much of that exists in California where resources are very limited, and state government agencies' oversight forces them to use those obscene methods to "raise" cattle. Here in Texas, land is cheap, water is more plentiful than California, and the cows are happier.

    As for the OP's topic, I agree that there should be other options than leather. My last car was a Mercedes that had the MB-Tex vinyl. It was amazingly resilient! As for my Model S, I got the textile option because I didn't want to have to mess with the maintenance of leather.
     
  19. MassModel3

    MassModel3 Member

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    #19 MassModel3, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
    I'm not sure you're reading the same post you commented on, because I never said that the use of leather bothers me, nor did I say that slaughtering cattle bothers me. Quite frankly, it doesn't bother me at all. For that matter, steak and ground beef make up a good portion of my diet. I'm not bothered by it. What bothered me is that you went off topic and decided to get all PETA on the forum about car seats.

    That being said, I do prefer the cloth seats. Not for ethical reasons, I just think they're more comfortable. Personal preference.
     
  20. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    This.

    Studies showing the poor sustainability and negative environmental impact of raising cattle are looking at factory, grain-based cattle production. From a dietary and environmental perspective, factory farming is an atrocity.

    Cattle that graze on open pasture and that do not require that grains be raised and harvested to feed them produce nutritionally superior meat and are environmentally beneficial.

    Condemning beef because of factory farming practices is not the answer.
     

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