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Leaving a car plugged into 110 or not plugged at all?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by golfpilot, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. golfpilot

    golfpilot Member

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    Leaving my car under a sunshade with a 110 plug for about 20 hours. I will be doing this often Is it better to plug it into a 110 and let it trickle charge up to 70% or leave it be somewhere between 50-70 percent?
    Northern California so temps aren’t ridiculous but overheat protection will likely bump on a little. There is a plug right next to where I’ll be parking so it would be really easy but I read 110 charging isn’t great for car. But is it better than no charging at all?
     
  2. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Plug it in. No reason to set the charge limit down, keep it at the 80 or 90% you usually use. Oh, and RTFM, especially the battery section.

    To paraphrase the cards that originally came with the Model S, a connected Model 3 is a happy Model 3:
    A connected Model S is a happy Model S
     
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  3. golfpilot

    golfpilot Member

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    Thanks
     
  4. omgwtfbyobbq

    omgwtfbyobbq Active Member

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    I'd leave it plugged it, but keep the limit at 70%-75% unless you have a long trip. One potential positive to 110V charging is that the car has more time to balance the batteries compared to higher energy charging.
     
    • Disagree x 3
  5. Kuhz

    Kuhz Member

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    ALWAYS plug it in if it’s not a pain to do so
     
  6. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Balancing is irrelevant to this discussion. If it’s like the Model S, balancing starts at about 92% charge and continues even if you stop charging. Tesla has a different battery management system than whatever less sophisticated EV you were used to.

    Also no reason to limit the daily charge. Years of experience with the Tesla batteries has shown no meaningful difference in loss at SOC less than 90%. Battery experiments may show a statistically significant difference, but it hasn’t been a meaningful one in practice.
     
    • Informative x 1
  7. Eno Deb

    Eno Deb Member

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    There's nothing wrong with charging at 110V. I'd set the charge limit to 70-80% unless you want to make a long trip (see here and here). If it's not too inconvenient I'd plug it in, but for 20 hours it shouldn't really be necessary.
     
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    You haven’t seen Tesla’s advice, have you?
    Hint: RTFM and see the link in post #2 above.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  9. HelloJohnny

    HelloJohnny Member

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    I've been charging on a 110v outlet since I got my Model 3 in July. Have no issues with it for daily charging since my commute is only 20 miles round trip. As everyone says ABC (Always be charging) I set my charge limit to 80%.

    I set the charge limit to 90% towards the weekend since I typically go out on the weekends and drive around 50-60 miles.
    I am planning to install a 240v outlet once we clean out the garage.
     
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  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    If you want to always be charging, which is a good idea if you don’t have a 240V outlet yet, don’t set your charge limit to 80%.
     
  11. patrick40363

    patrick40363 Member

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    Plug it in and feel free to go to 90%.
     
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  12. BestHand

    BestHand Member

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    TexasEV Can you share a link for this info please? It is very interesting to know a bit more about it.
     
  13. Eno Deb

    Eno Deb Member

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    I don't see anything that contradicts what I wrote (hint: I did RTFM).

    If charging isn't convenient at the location (e.g. if there is a chance of rain and the 110V outlet only has a flap but not a proper weather-proof box and GFCI, or @golfpilot just doesn't want to unplug/plug his only UMC every time he visits that location) the car will be fine without being plugged in for 20 hours.
     
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  14. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    If it’s easy and the plug is right there, I would use it. Any time there is a meaningful amount of time to charge the car I would. 120 Volt (110 Volt doesn’t exist any more) isn’t fast but 20 hours is a long time so you can get 80 miles in the battery. Definitely worth it.

    There is absolutely nothing bad about charging at 120 Volt. It is a little less efficient than at 240 Volt but that doesn’t do any harm.

    As for the battery level, anything below 90% is fine. If I know I don’t need to drive much the next day I will usually set the charge level a little lower. The lower the battery level the better for the longevity of the battery. I have 173k miles and 4.5 years on my Tesla and plan on keeping it for another 4 years and probably the same amount of miles. What makes a small difference to most average drivers will make a much bigger difference to me.

    As for balancing. Do not worry about it at all! There is nothing you can do on your end to balance the battery or follow a certain procedure to make it happen. The car takes care of it and it does an awesome job.
     
  15. omgwtfbyobbq

    omgwtfbyobbq Active Member

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    The less sophisticated EV I'm referring to is my Model 3. If I charge at a low rate on 110V, the battery recal is relatively low, usually only a mile or two. If I charge at Supercharger, the recal is in my experience much higher. Jack Rickard tore down the pack and his guess is that Tesla's using LTC/Analog's 6813-1, which has a maximum passive balancing current of 200mA. Regardless of what chip Tesla is using for it's BMS, it's likely much easier for it to keep up with balancing the pack at 1.5kW than at 100+kW.

    Tesla Model 3 - NextGen Battery - EVTV Motor Verks
    http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/68131f.pdf

    I limit state of charge because every battery I've seen tested lasts longer at lower states of charge and temperatures. And while I love that the packs in the Model S are holding up well, we don't have decades of data on how well these batteries will hold up, and I would much rather have a pack that lasts 25 years instead of 15 years.

    Having said that, if you're completely certain there will be no difference in lifespan by charging to 90% instead of 70%, I'd be happy to charge to 90% daily when you put up enough to cover the replacement of my pack in an escrow account. :D
     
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  16. hoang51

    hoang51 Member

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  17. golfpilot

    golfpilot Member

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    At home I have a NEMA plug and seperate UMC connector. The plug I speak off is under a shade hangar for a plane I fly very often. Its a free charge, so when I am there I will plug in. I don't know where I thought plugging 110 was a BAD idea. Maybe I was watching a cold weather youtube video where someone was losing range or something...
     
  18. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the link but this was found by Jason Hughes (wk057 on TMC) a few years ago. He's the same guy who just reported finding the version 9 firmware last weekend. You could search here for the topic or his user name and probably find his report on battery balancing.
     
    • Informative x 1
  19. omgwtfbyobbq

    omgwtfbyobbq Active Member

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    • Informative x 1
  20. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Yes but we don't know if there are other mechanisms that the BMS uses to measure balancing. The BMS might take measurements in more than one way. My pack has 174k miles and is amazingly well balanced. I have gone months not charging beyond 90%. If the BMS would only look at cell balancing at 93% my pack would have gone without balancing for a long time yet it has never showed it (I'm looking at the CAN data). I think it's reasonable to assume the BMS has more than just one way.
     

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