Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Leaving the Tesla family for an ICE

iadbound

Member
Apr 24, 2014
648
16
No. VA
I haven't posted in a long time, and I'm sad to do it now. But here goes. I've had a Model S since Sep. 2014. A lot has happened since then (most of it great), but I find that I am one of those rare people where the Model S just isn't practical anymore. For two years, I've struggled with charging after moving to an apartment building that claimed to have "charging." For 1 1/2 of those years it never worked quite right or not at all, and for the last couple of months it's been reliable. But at 30 amps and 200 V it's just too slow and I can't reasonably park at the charger every night (it's a shared facility). In addition, I find myself traveling a bit more and staying at a rental house with no charging and no option to add charging -- no charging at work either. As I contemplate the living/working/charging arrangements, I find that a BEV just doesn't work in my situation.

The sad thing is: I love my Model S. There is no vehicle like it. So I decided to make a huge leap into a different realm of car completely. I'm going with Land Rover Discovery, which I'll probably pick up at the end of the month.

This forum is amazing, and I know I'll still read it. Hopefully, I'll be back in the Tesla family one day.
 

JohnSnowNW

Active Member
Feb 13, 2015
2,646
2,772
Minnesota
Sounds like you don't have much choice with the charging constraints.

The Discovery is 21 MPG City, though...that hurts to think about.
 

jimmyjohn

Member
Jun 9, 2013
344
316
Durden
Spill it --- can you tell us the apartment development?

I used to live at a condo that overlooked a NEW NEW NEW set of apartments in Merrifield VA that claimed to have EV charging. It was a single point that was usually ICE'd or used as a repository for cigarette butts from an adjoining restaurant.

... I've struggled with charging after moving to an apartment building that claimed to have "charging." ...
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Haxster

Keith909man

Member
Apr 25, 2017
412
750
Tacoma wa
Well, how strange. Interesting enough I was going to buy the all new Land Rover Discover. I had a day one model 3 reservation while I owned a Land Rover Discovery 2 and a Discovery 3 (LR3). When Land Rover announced their all new Land Rover Discovery, I went crazy for it. So much so that placed an actual order in for one and was going to cancel my M3. Well, while waiting those 3 months till my Land Rover was delivererd, I found myself sucked into that deep sick rabbit hole of Tesla... right around time to get financing for the Rover, I asked my bank who approved me for the Rover if it was possible for me to do a Tesla at X amount. Said yes, you’re approved for that and I just went bar *sugar* crazy! And pulled the trigger on a new model S 90D when all the stars aligned... a week after that, my new Discovery arrived at the dealership and my dealer was pisssd lol

But I Couldn’t be happier :) I still love my two older land rovers while I still currently own. In fact, if I went back to just ICE, it would be a Land Rover and most likely a Discovery
. They are so cool, practical, fun, and a great family car. One thing that will piss you off after owning a Tesla is the infotainment center. You’re see ;) good luck with your new car and I believe you make a great choice for an ICE
 

dhrivnak

Active Member
Jan 8, 2011
4,457
3,701
NE Tennessee
I haven't posted in a long time, and I'm sad to do it now. But here goes. I've had a Model S since Sep. 2014. A lot has happened since then (most of it great), but I find that I am one of those rare people where the Model S just isn't practical anymore. For two years, I've struggled with charging after moving to an apartment building that claimed to have "charging." For 1 1/2 of those years it never worked quite right or not at all, and for the last couple of months it's been reliable. But at 30 amps and 200 V it's just too slow and I can't reasonably park at the charger every night (it's a shared facility). In addition, I find myself traveling a bit more and staying at a rental house with no charging and no option to add charging -- no charging at work either. As I contemplate the living/working/charging arrangements, I find that a BEV just doesn't work in my situation.

The sad thing is: I love my Model S. There is no vehicle like it. So I decided to make a huge leap into a different realm of car completely. I'm going with Land Rover Discovery, which I'll probably pick up at the end of the month.

This forum is amazing, and I know I'll still read it. Hopefully, I'll be back in the Tesla family one day.
Wow so sorry to hear that as I would have worked hard to add charging. But given that we also love our Volt and the Honda Clarity seems good if you need something larger. That way you can still likely do a lot of EV driving.
 

kodek

Member
Aug 21, 2016
26
21
US CA
Spill it --- can you tell us the apartment development?

I used to live at a condo that overlooked a NEW NEW NEW set of apartments in Merrifield VA that claimed to have EV charging. It was a single point that was usually ICE'd or used as a repository for cigarette butts from an adjoining restaurant.

I got anxious just thinking about that. I should be more grateful to have a garage where I can charge at night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brkaus

Asymmetry

Member
Jun 22, 2015
164
133
Australia, Sydney
That sucks, one of the major hurdles for Tesla as a lot of people live in flats. Need to covert gas stations to EV chargers / cafes. I

Land Rover Discovery 2 and a Discovery 3
You like these cars? Every time I see a SUV broke down its new Range rover sport (drug dealer edition). I know a few people that own these, the repair lists is insane, they are probably one of the worse cars out there.
 

JohnSnowNW

Active Member
Feb 13, 2015
2,646
2,772
Minnesota
That sucks, one of the major hurdles for Tesla as a lot of people live in flats. Need to covert gas stations to EV chargers / cafes.

In the US, there are roughly 86M households with access to home charging. While many people do live in flats there is a considerable backlog of non-flat owners to get through first.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,217
7,010
Delaware
Need to covert gas stations to EV chargers / cafes.

This is already starting. Several of the recent Superchargers have been at WaWa and Sheetz - big convenience store chains with fueling pumps attached. As the usage shifts, they'll install more charging and fewer pumps.
 

Ketchups

Member
Dec 16, 2017
483
269
San Diego, CA
blah blah blah...no charging and no option to add charging -- no charging at work either. As I contemplate the living/working/charging arrangements, I find that a BEV just doesn't work in my situation.
You couldn't just sit at a supercharging station for an hour or two like the rest of us?
 

Ulmo

Active Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,328
4,427
Vienna Woods, Aptos, California
With all the M3s coming to market, this scenario might happen to many people.
I imagine so. This will force yet more apartment owners to grapple with their considered opinion of supporting electric vehicles in a more assertive way. Tenants will find out more suredly what the opinion of apartment owners will be. With the Model S and X, landlords probably looked at those as special cars, and treated them specially, but the Model 3 will be considered more normal (since it is), and they'll have to develop regular opinions about them.

Apartment dwellers should soon learn what the support for their vehicles will be. While we should expect landlord opinions to change with time, they'll likely feel compelled to put forth an initial opinion that should hold sway in their respective properties for some time.

6kW would be enough to charge a LR Model 3 from 10% to 90% SOC in 10 hours, meaning 8 hours sleep + 2 hours personal time with no additional car use. That's barely enough if the commute does pull out that full range by itself, something that I would consider an optimistic situation for many California commuters, but more reasonable for the wealthier Model 3 buyers since they can usually afford to live a bit closer to work than average commuters and would need a lot less time to fully recharge their cars. The Model X 100D, on the other hand, would require 13.3 hours to charge 80% of battery, which is 8 hours sleep + 3.3 personal hours at home; however, supposedly, the X owner would afford an even closer home to which they'd presumably have that entire 3.3 hours to themselves, and have picked up dinner supplies on the way home, and additionally, wouldn't ever need 80% SOC for a full commute so the charge time would be much reduced, and furthermore, would be able to afford and have access to much faster charging, so around 11kW, cutting that already reduced time down by about half. It really is the lower cost Model S owners who are in the worst squeeze here, due to Model S's higher cost and higher battery charge requirements trying to squeeze into limited resources such as lower electrical infrastructure provisions in apartments, compared to the Model 3 for the same distance.

I've often touted work solar power, work batteries and work charging pedestals as the solution to this. That's when the sun is shining, and the combination of solar panels and batteries can cut down on peak utility charges. The only hard part is that EVSE's are behind in supporting variable availability electricity for charging cars; that needs to be implemented pronto and is already way way way past due. It's being implemented in some installations, but only as specialty; that's unacceptable.


---

I think I would be in a different category of lower wages and therefore unreasonable commutes for electric vehicles than typical apartment dweller Model 3 owners.

I found that when I owned my Model S 60D, I barely had enough time at home to recharge the car for work the next day with half an hour or so to spare, given the time of use rates scheduling and when I needed to leave. I was lucky to have 10kW available to charge, so the time of use rate from 11PM to when I left allowed me to get the car recharged by around 4AM, which is technically leaving late for me since I'm supposed to arrive early with time to spare. I ended up unplugging my car during charging most mornings, and often had to top-off someplace on the way home. If instead I had the Model 3, its additional range would have allowed it to use less electricity, but its slower charging speed would have counteracted that, and I would have been in an identical boat as my Model S, with a 5 hour charge time, technically not enough time by the time I had to leave for work. Most Tesla owners don't go to work early like I do.

Of my coworkers, I have a medium commute distance. A third of my coworkers live half the energy distance I do, and more than half my coworkers live almost twice the energy distance I do, and have only about 8.5 hours at home (including family time and sleep); their charge window 11PM-leaving time would be about 4 hours if they're cutting it close (they'd leave around 3AM if they're pushing it). My work type does not allow assumption of work charging, and in fact, I never see work charging available. My long distance commuter coworkers can't own electric, unless there's a leap in battery range of about 2x and relative home charging speed of about 4x and a car price drop by about .5x. None of the closer living coworkers can afford a Tesla, even though they would have enough time to charge it at proper time of use times if they did. By the time they could afford a Tesla, they'd rather buy a house, which would double their commute distance and half their charging time. It's a no go.

The only coworkers I ever expect to see in an EV are those who splurge for a 15 year old used long distance EV and live close in to work. That will be the Long Range Model 3 circa 2033. 2033! Yes, 2033 is when I expect coworkers in my business to start using EV's, without a giant leap in technology. As it is, 2036 is when Social Security is slated to run out of existence; the entire world will look different then. We'll have a colony on Mars, and political changes throughout Earth that seem surprising today will be old hat by then. My first coworker with an EV will pull up in a beat up old Bolt for the first time with an EV. A few years later, maybe a Tessy will appear.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: isjka

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,217
7,010
Delaware
I imagine so. This will force yet more apartment owners to grapple with their considered opinion of supporting electric vehicles in a more assertive way. Tenants will find out more suredly what the opinion of apartment owners will be. With the Model S and X, landlords probably looked at those as special cars, and treated them specially, but the Model 3 will be considered more normal (since it is), and they'll have to develop regular opinions about them.

Apartment dwellers should soon learn what the support for their vehicles will be. While we should expect landlord opinions to change with time, they'll likely feel compelled to put forth an initial opinion that should hold sway in their respective properties for some time.

6kW would be enough to charge a LR Model 3 from 10% to 90% SOC in 10 hours, meaning 8 hours sleep + 2 hours personal time with no additional car use. That's barely enough if the commute does pull out that full range by itself, something that I would consider an optimistic situation for many California commuters, but more reasonable for the wealthier Model 3 buyers since they can usually afford to live a bit closer to work than average commuters and would need a lot less time to fully recharge their cars. The Model X 100D, on the other hand, would require 13.3 hours to charge 80% of battery, which is 8 hours sleep + 3.3 personal hours at home; however, supposedly, the X owner would afford an even closer home to which they'd presumably have that entire 3.3 hours to themselves, and have picked up dinner supplies on the way home, and additionally, wouldn't ever need 80% SOC for a full commute so the charge time would be much reduced, and furthermore, would be able to afford and have access to much faster charging, so around 11kW, cutting that already reduced time down by about half. It really is the lower cost Model S owners who are in the worst squeeze here, due to Model S's higher cost and higher battery charge requirements trying to squeeze into limited resources such as lower electrical infrastructure provisions in apartments, compared to the Model 3 for the same distance.

I've often touted work solar power, work batteries and work charging pedestals as the solution to this. That's when the sun is shining, and the combination of solar panels and batteries can cut down on peak utility charges. The only hard part is that EVSE's are behind in supporting variable availability electricity for charging cars; that needs to be implemented pronto and is already way way way past due. It's being implemented in some installations, but only as specialty; that's unacceptable.


---

I think I would be in a different category of lower wages and therefore unreasonable commutes for electric vehicles than typical apartment dweller Model 3 owners.

I found that when I owned my Model S 60D, I barely had enough time at home to recharge the car for work the next day with half an hour or so to spare, given the time of use rates scheduling and when I needed to leave. I was lucky to have 10kW available to charge, so the time of use rate from 11PM to when I left allowed me to get the car recharged by around 4AM, which is technically leaving late for me since I'm supposed to arrive early with time to spare. I ended up unplugging my car during charging most mornings, and often had to top-off someplace on the way home. If instead I had the Model 3, its additional range would have allowed it to use less electricity, but its slower charging speed would have counteracted that, and I would have been in an identical boat as my Model S, with a 5 hour charge time, technically not enough time by the time I had to leave for work. Most Tesla owners don't go to work early like I do.

Of my coworkers, I have a medium commute distance. A third of my coworkers live half the energy distance I do, and more than half my coworkers live almost twice the energy distance I do, and have only about 8.5 hours at home (including family time and sleep); their charge window 11PM-leaving time would be about 4 hours if they're cutting it close (they'd leave around 3AM if they're pushing it). My work type does not allow assumption of work charging, and in fact, I never see work charging available. My long distance commuter coworkers can't own electric, unless there's a leap in battery range of about 2x and relative home charging speed of about 4x and a car price drop by about .5x. None of the closer living coworkers can afford a Tesla, even though they would have enough time to charge it at proper time of use times if they did. By the time they could afford a Tesla, they'd rather buy a house, which would double their commute distance and half their charging time. It's a no go.

The only coworkers I ever expect to see in an EV are those who splurge for a 15 year old used long distance EV and live close in to work. That will be the Long Range Model 3 circa 2033. 2033! Yes, 2033 is when I expect coworkers in my business to start using EV's, without a giant leap in technology. As it is, 2036 is when Social Security is slated to run out of existence; the entire world will look different then. We'll have a colony on Mars, and political changes throughout Earth that seem surprising today will be old hat by then. My first coworker with an EV will pull up in a beat up old Bolt for the first time with an EV. A few years later, maybe a Tessy will appear.

You and all your co-workers must live way off of the statistical deep end for commute distances. The notional 3 driver you described is doing something over 60,000 miles per year just with their commute.

Presumably most people who live in apartments won't have that kind of commute. In fact, aside from winter weather, the vast majority of drivers would be fine with just a dedicated 120V circuit to charge overnight. (80% of drivers do less than 40 miles per day.)

(Winter situations where the battery heater can draw more than a 120V line puts out make this a problematic overall solution for much of the country.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: brkaus

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top