Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Let's discuss Dual Motor range

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
Is Elon underselling the range on the Dual Motor 3, just as he did for the RWD variant?

The RWD 3 was tested at 334 miles of range by the EPA (with the aeros). Without aeros, it was closer to the 310 miles range that Tesla asked the EPA to publish.

When EPA specs leak for the AWD/non-P variant, what do you suspect the range will be for the 2 types of wheels?

Elon stated over the weekend (when discussing the brakes) that the regen in Dual Motors is going to be stronger than the RWD. The S variants have all seen a range bump in the AWD configs when compared to their RWD variants.

I just find it hard to fathom that we won't see ANY improvement in range with Dual Motors, and I suspect the numbers are being sandbagged again.

So, what's the "napkin math" say? 4% 5% 6%? More? Less?

4% boost: aeros= 347 miles / 19's= 322 miles
5% boost: aeros= 350 miles / 19's= 325 miles
6% boost: aeros= 354 miles / 19's= 328 miles
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
Does it not cost money to have the EPA rate your car? By not retesting, do they not save money?


I'm not sure how that works, but I would think that a different drivetrain would require a new EPA test, in order for the Monroney stickers to remain somewhat accurate.

I think they HAVE TO have the EPA test AWD.
 

ForeverFree

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jul 9, 2015
606
1,364
Sherman Oaks, CA
Latest data point on real-world Model 3 range:

300-mile trip to Mammoth Lakes, CA
Average speed = 74 mph
Sherman Oaks --> Mammoth (+6800 ft) used 356 range miles
Return trip (nonstop) used 266 range miles

This implies:

Flat-trip usage of 306 miles to cover 300 miles (assuming 80% regen efficiency)
Real-world range of 304 miles ... at 74 mph
65 mph real-world range of 335-340 miles
Even if AWD is only very slightly better (remember, the range difference between S85 and S85D was only 5 miles, less than 2%), its real-world range at 65 mph should indeed approximate 340, as OP calculated above.

Great road trip car ... especially if Uncle Elon can solve the road/wind noise problems.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
Why does everyone keep thinking that dual motor = more range? It was only true on the S because two, more efficient small motors replaced a single, less efficient large motor. Model 3 RWD already has the most efficient rear motor. Adding a second motor upfront only adds weight and decreases efficiency.
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
Latest data point on real-world Model 3 range:

300-mile trip to Mammoth Lakes, CA
Average speed = 74 mph
Sherman Oaks --> Mammoth (+6800 ft) used 356 range miles
Return trip (nonstop) used 266 range miles

This implies:

Flat-trip usage of 306 miles to cover 300 miles (assuming 80% regen efficiency)
Real-world range of 304 miles ... at 74 mph
65 mph real-world range of 335-340 miles
Even if AWD is only very slightly better (remember, the range difference between S85 and S85D was only 5 miles, less than 2%), its real-world range at 65 mph should indeed approximate 340, as OP calculated above.

Great road trip car ... especially if Uncle Elon can solve the road/wind noise problems.



Awesome! I've ordered my AWD, and based on my delivery window (late summer....in New England), I decided to just go with the 18" aeros and all-seasons. I'll put nicer 19's and summer tires on it next April or so.
 

Dante

Member
Apr 3, 2016
281
135
Canada
Was there not speculation that Tesla badged the Model 3 as LR/SR in order to avoid disclosing the size of the battery, and thereby setting them up to maintain the range of the car through efficiencies while decreasing the battery size to save costs? I feel that this would not be the "Tesla way" but as they mature, they may turn to these sorts of tactics to improve the bottom line. Thoughts?
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
Why does everyone keep thinking that dual motor = more range? It was only true on the S because two, more efficient small motors replaced a single, less efficient large motor. Model 3 RWD already has the most efficient rear motor. Adding a second motor upfront only adds weight and decreases efficiency.



We don't know what they're doing for torque sleep, and how much regen the 2nd motor adds. In this case, why wouldn't 2 small, efficient motors, with finely-tuned torque sleep and regen, provide even a slight boost in range at highway speeds?
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
We don't know what they're doing for torque sleep, and how much regen the 2nd motor adds. In this case, why wouldn't 2 small, efficient motors, with finely-tuned torque sleep and regen, provide even a slight boost in range at highway speeds?

If we're talking highway cruising, regen wouldn't matter. Maybe in stop and go traffic, improved regen could make a difference. But any slight improvement in efficiency would be offset by a few hundred pounds of extra weight. If range really were improved, Tesla would have played it up by giving an estimated range higher than the RWD car (e.g. 315 miles).
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
If we're talking highway cruising, regen wouldn't matter. Maybe in stop and go traffic, improved regen could make a difference. But any slight improvement in efficiency would be offset by a few hundred pounds of extra weight. If range really were improved, Tesla would have played it up by giving an estimated range higher than the RWD car (e.g. 315 miles).


My thought process here is that Elon really has only been selectively forthcoming with the info. Maybe he is waiting for official numbers before tooting his own horn?

310 and 334 are pretty impressive, but if the AWD gets more, it will be that much more of a game-changing car.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
My thought process here is that Elon really has only been selectively forthcoming with the info. Maybe he is waiting for official numbers before tooting his own horn?

310 and 334 are pretty impressive, but if the AWD gets more, it will be that much more of a game-changing car.

Not getting my hopes up. When Model S dual motor was first announced, they made a big deal about how range was improved. The P85D was initially listed with a "range at 65mph" of 285 miles. That got everyone excited about a significant bump in range and no doubt contributed to a lot of people ordering the car. When the EPA range of 242 miles (later revised to 253 miles) was revealed, there was all sorts of speculation that maybe Tesla was factoring in 21" wheels and/or 90% charge limit. Turns out, it really was just 253 miles (12 miles LESS than a regular 85, and 17 miles less than an 85D). In short, adding another motor (and leaving the original motor unchanged) makes a car heavier and less efficient.

Here's a good Tesla blog to review. TLDR, the cars are all in the same ballpark in terms of range.

Driving Range for the Model S Family
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,100
3,919
Norway, ME
Not getting my hopes up. When Model S dual motor was first announced, they made a big deal about how range was improved. The P85D was initially listed with a "range at 65mph" of 285 miles. That got everyone excited about a significant bump in range and no doubt contributed to a lot of people ordering the car. When the EPA range of 242 miles (later revised to 253 miles) was revealed, there was all sorts of speculation that maybe Tesla was factoring in 21" wheels and/or 90% charge limit. Turns out, it really was just 253 miles (12 miles LESS than a regular 85, and 17 miles less than an 85D). In short, adding another motor (and leaving the original motor unchanged) makes a car heavier and less efficient.

Here's a good Tesla blog to review. TLDR, the cars are all in the same ballpark in terms of range.

Driving Range for the Model S Family



I'll probably have to heavy of a foot to get the full benefits anyway, unless I'm letting AutoPilot drive. lol
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
6,879
Canyon Lake,CA
Conjecture is that one of the motors will be constructed and tuned for range and the other for more power.

This would give the dual motor a nice balance of extra range and also better performance.

The controller could select which ever motor will provide the best range at any given speed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaryW

SabrToothSqrl

Active Member
Dec 5, 2014
3,799
3,118
PA
At 300+ miles, do we care any more?

It goes farther and faster than many cars with full gas tanks...

< 300 maybe I care. over 300... it's not even a thing ;)
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top