SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Yes, but this discussion is about retail pricing in relation to interior furnishing vis a vis the Model 'S'
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No idea; if you know please chime in.
I ignored the usual prices jumps we see in other manufacturers when car size increases since they also seem to be higher optioned and the price includes much fatter profits.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Profit is a percentage the Model 3 will have higher profit than the S60. In the middle of last year Elon was saying they hope for 25% gross profit margin for Model 3 on average. 25% means $8750 per car. The cash value is less, but as far as (revenue - cost) / revenue it could be higher on the base Model 3 vs the base Model S. Therefore annual profit from Model 3 sales will greater overshadow Model S/X.
As far as the battery, we don't yet know exactly how much smaller the Model 3 battery options will be.
We don't know for sure that it's a smaller motor, it's probably more cost effective to keep the same motor for all vehicles and mass produce them.
For cost reductions here's what we know.
Not 100% aluminum (but also not 100% steel)
Simpler to build
Much higher volume as you've suggested
Significant reduction in battery pack costs and logistics (no longer need to ship cells from Asia).
Likely volume discounts from suppliers as well
heading toward more automated manufacturing.
Probably the biggest reduction in cost is from the battery pack itself.
If I recall correctly Elon said that Tesla planned to take a smaller percentage margin for the 3 than the S, so that they could sell as many cars as possible. Or something to that effect.
I think this strategy is used by all the automakers, and can result in higher annual profits in dollar terms than selling fewer cars at higher margins.
GSP
I think this strategy is used by all the automakers, and can result in higher annual profits in dollar terms than selling fewer cars at higher margins.
GSP
JeffK
Well-Known Member
What we know is that Elon has said that the motors for Model 3 will be based on the new smaller motors on the Model S D models. But not the same. I think he hinted that they would be a bit smaller and have a higher efficiency..
So as I understand it will not be the same.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Do you remember when/where he said that? I'm interested in the context. The last I heard was only about the inverter.
Tesla Model 3 exclusive leaked specs: 300kW+ inverter architecture putting its power capacity near Model S
No, I can't remember for sure. But I think it was shortly after the "D" unveiling, long before the #1 3 unveiling. It was some questions about this new smaller motors for the "D" (front motor on "P" and front/rear on the others), if this was the same motor that would go into the Model 3 (or was it known as Model E then?). Then he gave that answer refereed above. I do not think this was on Tweeter, but on an Q&A session of some type.
I found it! It was a bit later then I remembered, and a bit different wording, but the meaning is more or less the same:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/340...k-on-q2-2015-results-earnings-call-transcript
(this is close to the end of the transcript)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Ok so the Model 3 motors will be based on the newer Model S motors but more advanced and with a more automated manufacturing process thus reducing costs... Nice.
Combined with the newer, more efficient inverters I think it's going to be a powerful and efficient car.
Most importantly...
Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Elon Musk doesn't know what he's doing. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
Elon Musk is undertaking a systematic effort to change this industry -- to make American cars more liked in the rest of the world. It is a systematic effort to change American transportation.
Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Elon Musk doesn't know what he's doing. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
Elon Musk is undertaking a systematic effort to change this industry -- to make American cars more liked in the rest of the world. It is a systematic effort to change American transportation.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The biggest cost reduction is no more last minute ideas from Elon, plus Tesla hiring more people experienced at designing high volume cars.
Note the stock jump when Elon started spending his time in a hole in the ground at SpaceX
Elon just posted two tweets that are within the context of this post.
Am noticing that many people think Model 3 is the "next version" of a Tesla, like iPhone 2 vs 3. This is not true.
Model 3 is just a smaller, more affordable version of Model S w less range & power & fewer features. Model S has more advanced technology.
Am noticing that many people think Model 3 is the "next version" of a Tesla, like iPhone 2 vs 3. This is not true.
Model 3 is just a smaller, more affordable version of Model S w less range & power & fewer features. Model S has more advanced technology.
He probably posted this because his forward indicators of model S sales are poor.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. He's trying to move the demand away from Model 3 into Model S as much as he can to optimize the ramp up of Model 3. If there were forward indicators of poop Model S demand he wouldn't have gotten rid of the 60 kWh battery.
He would not push M3 buyers to MS if MS was projected near production capacity. If he is pushing MS it is because of concern of MS sales trending towards being under plan.
This situation would not surprise them. It's a delicate time for Tesla. I bet 90% of potential MS buyers today would like to see if the M3 is good enough.
That's a fair point. I do think there's quite a bit of the populace that was able to afford up-scale cars that previously didn't due to maintenance costs/running costs. The Model S has potentially bridged that gap. With the Model 3 you probably have a large segment of the population that only drove beaters (i.e. <$10k for any car) that are now willing to fork a decent chunk of cash for a Model 3. I don't think demand is an issue for the Model S.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
I'd suggest test driving a Chevy Bolt. That's the only real competitor with a Model 3. For starters, it has a "button", whatever the heck purpose that serves!?
