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Let's talk about audio: Immersive Sound

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Hi folks,

To start, I'm no "audiophile" but I do appreciate higher-quality audio. Both in terms of digital compression and the actual physical sound system. To simplify an otherwise lengthy explanation, I cannot stand listening to bad quality audio, especially at high volumes. For this reason I generally don't listen to music, and almost never in cars.

I've had poor car audio in the past. Old Mazda 626. Smart fortwo. Honda Fit. Honda Crosstour (with the "premium" audio and subwoofer). They all are variations on "meh" to "terrible", but the newer vehicles I was always able to hook up my phone via analog 3.5mm "headphone jack" to play my higher-quality digital music (compressed or not), or use USB audio which is a poor experience for music navigation.

Enter Tesla Model 3. While it doesn't blow me away, this is the first car I've been in with a "stock" system that I can actually enjoy a bit of loud listening once in a while. Yet, the connectivity options leave me flabbergasted: USB interface is still a bit difficult in reality, and I can't use my 3.5mm jack. I have to use Bluetooth, but then I'm sacrificing a significant amount of quality. I know the cool thing is to drop the headphone jack, but for a car?! I'm actually a bit upset by this.

So here's finally my point: "Immersive Sound" ruins audio, especially at low volumes. What in the world is it actually supposed to be doing? I have some celtic/folk music that it seems to perhaps add some reverb to, which is very out-of-place. But the most annoying thing is that on other music with bass drops/bass rhythms, it effectively cuts the higher frequencies (AKA: the rest of the song aside from the bass track) to give emphasis to the bass. At low listening volumes, this has the impression of the audio dropping just after beats in the music. However, with all windows open going down a highway, the Immersive Sound option seems to somehow make things better somehow (perhaps just because it's using the A-pillar speakers, which are closer to my ears?).

I've seen statements that the Immersive Sound option is some marvel of engineering that sends only certain frequency bands to the appropriately-sized speakers for the job. Or that it magically accounts for time-of-flight for the sound reaching your ears (so this would work for only one occupant?). Other statements that it's simply the only way to listen to music. Another that it's the only way to enable the pillar speakers.

I keep Immersive Sound on because it does seem somehow better rolling down the highway at high volumes, but the performance at regular and low volumes with the windows up drives me simply mad. I should probably turn it off.

Does anyone have more insight on exactly what the Immersive Sound option does? Any similar or counter stories?
 
Don't have much to say in regard to your experience - low volume listening, driving with the windows open - I wouldn't even bother with music in those situations.

I will report my experience though - I also am highly suspicious of "surround" or "immersive" type sound addons. Very often they can be variations on just plain bad, soupy, reverby, phase misalignment tricks that are best turned off and forgotten about. I've had quite a few high end, "premium" sound systems in the the cars I've owned, and the few that had this, I never used it. And when I got the model 3 a year ago, they were still tweaking things, and the sound system was still not working right, and adding immersion just added more problems. But after a few months, in a similar thread, I was reporting that I hated it, and someone suggest that I give it another go, that they'd "cracked the code" or something like that. And indeed, it was much better - it added a subtle amount of detail in the midrange, and a bit more defined soundstage via the top pillar speakers, all without adding any of the goop that typically comes with this kind of thing. So I've been using it on and off since then, mostly on. I only use the middle setting - the higher setting is still too much for me.

BTW I almost always play flacs or high bitrate mp3's from a usb ssd. I had to use bluetooth from my phone for the first few months before they got the usb system working, and even with a high end phone audio app the sound is pretty bad - compression artifacts that remind me of low end mp3's.
 
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BTW I almost always play flacs or high bitrate mp3's from a usb ssd. I had to use bluetooth from my phone for the first few months before they got the usb system working, and even with a high end phone audio app the sound is pretty bad - compression artifacts that remind me of low end mp3's.

The Bluetooth system supports AAC at bitrates of at least 256kbps. As long as your phone actually supports it, it should sound imperceptible in a car audio system. You're not going to be able to discern differences without a silent room and good headphones.
 
I had a Model S for two days as a service loaner while my P3D was being worked on. I fiddled with the sound settings on the S and what I'd wish for is the lows of the model S, the mids of the model 3, and the highs in both are fine. I'm not audiophile either (and I have tinnitus), but I can say that one of my favorite systems to date is actually the Fender system I had in my 2018 Golf R. Especially for a hatch, the sound was stellar and highly customizable with much more noticeable range. The missing lows in my later release model 3 is due to the redesigned solid rear trunk deck, which has helped reduced road noise from the trunk but has also isolated the subwoofer...oh well!

Thanks for sharing your insights though.
 
I had a Model S for two days as a service loaner while my P3D was being worked on. I fiddled with the sound settings on the S and what I'd wish for is the lows of the model S, the mids of the model 3, and the highs in both are fine. I'm not audiophile either (and I have tinnitus), but I can say that one of my favorite systems to date is actually the Fender system I had in my 2018 Golf R. Especially for a hatch, the sound was stellar and highly customizable with much more noticeable range. The missing lows in my later release model 3 is due to the redesigned solid rear trunk deck, which has helped reduced road noise from the trunk but has also isolated the subwoofer...oh well!

Thanks for sharing your insights though.

I had the same Fender sound system in my 2016 Golf R and the Model 3 premium sound is miiiiiiles better. That’s not to say the Fender system was bad, - quite the contrary. Just that the 3 is much, much better.
 
I had the same Fender sound system in my 2016 Golf R and the Model 3 premium sound is miiiiiiles better. That’s not to say the Fender system was bad, - quite the contrary. Just that the 3 is much, much better.

I wonder if VW changed anything, although unlikely, but the head unit for sure changed in 2018. Having the fender sub attached to the floor of the car in the trunk was brilliant...the bass hit so strong. My only complaint of the 3 is the lack of deep bass. It's a bit better if I fold a seat down in the back, but compared to older model 3's it's less thump in my car with that redesigned trunk ceiling. Though I guess road noise is less prominent in my car.
 
I wonder if VW changed anything, although unlikely, but the head unit for sure changed in 2018. Having the fender sub attached to the floor of the car in the trunk was brilliant...the bass hit so strong. My only complaint of the 3 is the lack of deep bass. It's a bit better if I fold a seat down in the back, but compared to older model 3's it's less thump in my car with that redesigned trunk ceiling. Though I guess road noise is less prominent in my car.

Can you elaborate on that redesign? I'm not familiar.
 
I find the 3's sound system to be mediocre. The immersive thing is a gimmick (can't stand added reverbs, etc. - sounds like bad 80s surround sound settings), and it's annoying that when you turn it off you're then not even using those pillar speakers. The sub is weak, and to my ears something happened around Dec '18 whereby they changed the crossover algorithm and the sub is barely even used now. Most frustrating is the lack of any way to get high quality audio to the system. It's 2019, I don't want to manage a library of music on a USB drive, and the implementation is completely glitchy anyway. It should have native Apple Music and Spotify apps that stream at high quality (isn't that the idea behind premium connectivity).
 
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I just returned from a 1200 mile trip through the beautiful boonies of Idaho and Montana. Everything was green and lush and the music added immensely to the experience. Even though I was in remote canyons, over a hundred miles from any city, the streaming audio kept pumping out delicious-sounding beats and grooves with only three or four 5-10 minute sections of no cell service.

I've had the premium audio in other vehicles (Volvos and Mazdas) but they were not even in the same ballpark in terms of audio fidelity/quality. Disclaimer: I like a clear balanced soundstage with clear deep bass, mid-tones and treble but not the nightclub thumping bass that seems to be all the rage with those who install aftermarket systems.
 
Disclaimer: I like a clear balanced soundstage with clear deep bass, mid-tones and treble but not the nightclub thumping bass that seems to be all the rage with those who install aftermarket systems.
As do I.

As such, I'm also a believer in the Model 3's sound system. It sounds fantastic. The rest of the family doesn't care for it, so when I'm in my car alone, I crank up classical music. The Model 3 sound system is so clear that I can just about see the bow moving across the strings. Truly fantastic sound, IMO.

But when the family is in the car, I don't make them suffer through my classical music suite... I make them suffer through the '80's station, instead. ;)
 
I think some people don't understand that car audio is, effectively, impossible to get right. You have a noisy environment (unless you only listen while parked), very poor options for speaker placements, very poor acoustics in a car cabin area, etc. There's cars that cost 5 times that of a Model 3 and still don't sound any better. Not from lack of trying, but simply because it's a terrible environment for critical listening.

Also, yes, they could put a bigger sub or something in. It wouldn't necessarily sound better, just "louder". Just like those folks who slam in a pair of 15" subs in their trunks, that doesn't make it good bass, that makes it loud. If that's all you want, great, but most people would rather have the energy, weight, and space savings of a better fitted smaller sub that matches the audio performance of the rest of the system.

I think the Model 3 has an excellent balance for its price range.
 
I believe what the OP is addressing is that most all digital music has an agenda. They take the original pure analog music (like a record player) and convert it to 1s and 0s. They compress/boost/frequency shift, time shift, frequency modulate, synthesise, etc to get the sound they want. Two sound engineers sitting next to each other will rarely come up with identical audio fingerprints.

This is the nature of modern music, and is is not unusual to think that while some people might like the sound design, another will find it annoying.

Audio has a terrible environment in modern cars.
 
I believe what the OP is addressing is that most all digital music has an agenda. They take the original pure analog music (like a record player) and convert it to 1s and 0s. They compress/boost/frequency shift, time shift, frequency modulate, synthesise, etc to get the sound they want. Two sound engineers sitting next to each other will rarely come up with identical audio fingerprints.

Well, there's nothing pure about analog either, if you want to be that technical. The audio that makes it to vinyl is heavily modified from the master tape. High quality records require immense processing work to fit as much of the audio signal into the limited tracking size. They'll do things like pull down the highs in parts of songs to create room for the lows, lower the volume of output to allow for more dynamic range, outright cut tracks from an album (or add more records to the album) to provide more track room, etc.

Digital is always going to have the highest potential quality. What is done to a digital master afterwards is entirely up to the industry, just as vinyl was.
 
Can you elaborate on that redesign? I'm not familiar.

This is what my trunk looks like. Seems to be the case with cars produced June/July 2019 forward from the small samples I've been able to see.
BCFzxuvCXk6k0G42yTjG34wHNuMu6e7XT5tF9bkZV7c5zQT1aXw8N9r1WgU56la7j8eXPC7egCDq6Ohlyg51D5NyC5q5O5ESvxjHB0VCXmT382fFliMzfnH8YTtc6gS_LFZxqdLH9WVbdtJzKihzyq3uh1KipY4DuryagSYLzc0pOF2zyDSev4xWlBT1O9lgu-hYxtwiHUwQaMo4nqaG6bgLEAxKjZX-1lfMszVNcNEbo1VvWax7msiOMFjmuer3b3tP34YVUPfLb2eaqWqRkEGQk8z7uvjb0ZadIa8IPnJbSH8_swNrur8xqzYpjhA7ZWzxfUGNq94NCtT_FArVGfqwk9VG2hfAGzT7G_Bnygz_JdNkTkrpcYLOPXJ9WX0NXd1LOgMLn_K71DrZW8of-JmTV1L5u4jLSGK8y6VEQ36xo09h4XDJtLPzTpIFzljygXXsde8Qj0rpCzyooeMoX46Rj4Tvyt2LpyamIG4zhdSMpJZEzI96HSvUui_lNYvd0OqAYjZYi3_2xeIboiEOLq_pv6NM7v0UO-Mj_IUpD7REtAhyvyTcOGAFz3ancMXLcPfsYp54eu0fKgDzMQ4XpzIkI-ca3HFGC7bDpc3sdWe_i5pi-K5jNLQq1gAbF5tEPG3cx7ObsZfyBCs4v4FPGaAu9SFmQMAN=w1205-h904-no
 
I love the sound of the Model 3. Best sound of any audio system in any car I have ever owned. How many speakers? Nine? I like the immersive option. I'm just using the built in streaming option, but occasionally stream audible books from my phone.
 
I love the sound of the Model 3. Best sound of any audio system in any car I have ever owned. How many speakers? Nine? I like the immersive option. I'm just using the built in streaming option, but occasionally stream audible books from my phone.
15 incl. subwoofer. I have the Burmester in a Porsche Panamera Turbo and it is the best audio system I've every experienced in a car. Immersive in my Model 3 is pretty damn good and i would say 75% of what the Burmester is.
 
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Dang that's lot of speakers. Love it! I haven't heard the Porsche yet, but at triple the price of a M3, I think Tesla is doing pretty dang good. I just don't understand all the complaints. But even the experts can disagree about what sounds the best. Certainly some subjective elements.
 
I been fortunate to work in a limited capacity with professional recording artists and engineers over the past 30 years. The joke is which AM talk radio station to listen on the way to and from lunch if silence won’t do, because music is work to most of them.

I had dinner with one of them last week and gave them a ride home when they had car problems. The 10 minute ride turned into an hour because he had to listen to one more thing after another. Slacker and Spotify got a work out. He said it was the best music experience he has ever had in a car. He said whoever designed it made it sound amazing, not accurate, but amazing in a car’s cabin.

All I could say was that I like it.

Then as he was leaving I showed him Netflix and he just said, “Get the F outa here.”

Fun evening. I see a Tesla in his future.
 
You never go to a concert and expect the sound to come from the rear or go and sit in the middle of the band having sound coming from all directions. I have sound coming from the front

A solo performance is one thing. But most opera houses and concert halls are designed that the orchestra sounds quite enveloping.

For amplified modern music, the venue and loudspeaker can be configured in any number of ways (and frankly, almost always way too loud to discern about placement and soundstage).

In car setups I find playing only the fronts sound strangely unsatisfying. Though philosophically, I do generally turn off all sound enhancements, and stay as close as possible to default outside of small EQ tweaks when really necessary.