Let's Talk FPL Rate Options

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well, according to ... http://www.fpl.com/rates/pdf/electric_tariff_section8.pdf, Residential TOU section

MONTHLY RATE:
...
Customer Charge: $11.90
...
If the Customer elects to make a lump sum payment to the Company for time of use metering costs of $259.68, then the Customer Charge and Minimum Charge shall be $7.57. (Ed: that's the same as the basic charge, so TOU is an extra $4.33 per month. If you pay the lump sum you'll get your money back in 5 years, so would be worth it over the long term.)

RATING PERIODS:

On-Peak:
November 1 through March 31: Mondays through Fridays during the hours from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. to l0
p.m. excluding Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and New Year's Day.
April 1 through October 31: Mondays through Fridays during the hours from 12 noon to 9
p.m. excluding Memorial Day, Independence Day, and Labor Day.
Off-Peak:
All other hours.

The additional charges chart has me a bit confused. I think it means that when you have residential TOU (RS-1 w/ RTR-1) you'll pay the same additional fees per kWh 2.947c|3.947c+0.337c + 0.786c + 0.224c = 4.294c|5.294c <=1000|>1000 and then on top of that +1.410c or -0.602c for on-peak and off-peak respectively.

The challenge is knowing your overall pattern of use. It's easy if they've installed a smart meter and you have it online. Up here in the cold corner, a CMP customer rep suggested to me that the TOU delivery wouldn't be worth it, but it is as our Volt just tips our use as the extra off-peak kWh just outweigh the additional ~$5 monthly fee, and save us $1 to $2/mo. If I also commuted in a PEV it'd be a total no-brainer.

 

[aviators99]

Yes, I think this is right for the surcharges. But the energy charge itself for >1000 off-peak is -3.919c. So, based on your math the total cost off-peak >1,000 is about 0.773c/kWh, if I'm reading everything correctly.

 

[aviators99]

Yes, I think this is right for the surcharges. But the energy charge itself for >1000 off-peak is -3.919c. So, based on your math the total cost off-peak >1,000 is about 0.773c/kWh, if I'm reading everything correctly.

Also, the first 1,000 kWh would be -0.224c/kWh. I'm assuming this is the first 1,000 hours of the billing cycle? In other words, if the beginning of the billing cycle starts on a Saturday, I would just run my pool heater for 48 hours straight, and lower my bill (?)

 

[aviators99]

Well, even though the tariffs seem to say the numbers above are correct, it turns out that they actually charge the TOU rates PLUS the standard rate. So during peak times the rate is over 21 cents/kWh and off-peak it is over 6 cents/kWh. Wondering if I should cancel the order to change over...

 

[aviators99]

Well, I'm giving it a try. Starting Wednesday I switch to Time of Use metering. Had a family meeting yesterday to see if we can change our behavior. Could be an expensive experiment!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well, even though the tariffs seem to say the numbers above are correct, it turns out that they actually charge the TOU rates PLUS the standard rate. So during peak times the rate is over 21 cents/kWh and off-peak it is over 6 cents/kWh. Wondering if I should cancel the order to change over...

So 10.5 is the standard rate? 6.nn for off-peak and 21.nn on peak?

If 6.5 and 21.5 it'd be -4 off peak and +11 on peak, putting the break-even to 73 1/3% off-peak. I can imagine that A/C use could make that tough, especially given a higher monthly service charge. We don't have many A/C days per year so our off-peak percentage was already 68%; the Volt has added around 200kWh/mo and pushed it up to 75-77%. (Don't have a full year of charging yet.)

If you have smart-metering anyway you might be able to check your current use pattern online to see how much would be off-peak and figure out how much you can save by shifting. If shifting doesn't do it, TOU billing changes the economics of home insulation and solar because they'll both have greatest effect reducing peak cooling.

 

[aviators99]

So 10.5 is the standard rate? 6.nn for off-peak and 21.nn on peak?

If 6.5 and 21.5 it'd be -4 off peak and +11 on peak, putting the break-even to 73 1/3% off-peak. I can imagine that A/C use could make that tough, especially given a higher monthly service charge. We don't have many A/C days per year so our off-peak percentage was already 68%; the Volt has added around 200kWh/mo and pushed it up to 75-77%. (Don't have a full year of charging yet.)

If you have smart-metering anyway you might be able to check your current use pattern online to see how much would be off-peak and figure out how much you can save by shifting. If shifting doesn't do it, TOU billing changes the economics of home insulation and solar because they'll both have greatest effect reducing peak cooling.

Yes, insulation could be another thing to try. I do have smart metering anyway, and can look at my usage by the hour, but there was no way to import to a spreadsheet or even write a program to screen scrape it, due to the way the webpage works. I ended up paying someone in India $25 to input 6 months by hand (fiverr.com). Based on that, without changing our behavior at all it was close to break-even. The rules are that I can change back at any time -- once. Then if I go back to TOU again, I have to stay there for a year.

 

[aviators99]

Well, I'm giving it a try. Starting Wednesday I switch to Time of Use metering. Had a family meeting yesterday to see if we can change our behavior. Could be an expensive experiment!

Here's an update. First, the meter was switched to be a TOU meter on 9/2 (it was already a smart meter, so I don't know why it had to be switched). Since the switch, I can no longer view my usage online at fpl.com. The website gets very confused and shows a bizarre graph that shows I've used $0.50 over 30 days.

I was told that the switch was for the 9/19-10/18 bill, which I received on 10/20. As I mentioned above, we changed our behavior (pretty drastically). The pool now runs at night (which is supposed to be bad for it), and I had to really rearrange the laundry situation. Of course I set the Model S to charge overnight, even though I don't expect it to make a big difference. It's just too easy, so I did it.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the bill was wrong. It used the normal RS-1 rate codes. I swear I think I am the first person in Florida to attempt to switch to TOU. The person with whom I dealt at FPL isn't there anymore. It took me until today to finally reach someone who knew what I was talking about (once again, calling the regular billing department yielded the result: We don't have a TOU plan). The new person is going to try to run my bill again tomorrow morning. *If* that works, it will actually work out better because I'll have an easy A/B comparison.

 

[aviators99]

Update 2: They were able to manually figure out the bill and it's "35% less". They are trying hard to generate a real bill. Right now if I login to my FPL account it says I have no bill at all.

 

[aviators99]

Update 2: They were able to manually figure out the bill and it's "35% less". They are trying hard to generate a real bill. Right now if I login to my FPL account it says I have no bill at all.

Still no bill. Now if I try to go to my "energy dashboard" I get:
Error 500: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun.awt.X11GraphicsEnvironment (initialization failure)

 

[randompersonx]

Slightly off topic, but when I installed solar panels on my house (Both PV and Water), FPL was having a problem communicating with the 'new' meters they were using for that service, and "estimated" my power usage for the first month -- the estimate was 4X my highest previous usage (seems plausible!).

After calling and complaining, they sent a meter reader out, the next month, I got another bill even higher. I called and asked what happened with the results from the reader -- they told me that it was impossible for the error to be so large between their estimate and the meter reader, and assumed that the meter reader made a mistake.

It took many phone calls and several months until eventually they corrected it (and installed 2 different meters until they finally got one they could read remotely properly).

 

[kudlacz]

Still no bill. Now if I try to go to my "energy dashboard" I get:
Error 500: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun.awt.X11GraphicsEnvironment (initialization failure)

I live in South Florida and was wondering what happened with TOU? I am a customer of FPL and we have a Net Metering agreement in place with FPL. We had a similar issue with Bill Discrepancies during first 2 billing cycles after the change but then things went to normal. I hope same thing happened with the TOU but since you have not posted any updates since your last comment, I can only assume that is the case.

 

[aviators99]

I live in South Florida and was wondering what happened with TOU? I am a customer of FPL and we have a Net Metering agreement in place with FPL. We had a similar issue with Bill Discrepancies during first 2 billing cycles after the change but then things went to normal. I hope same thing happened with the TOU but since you have not posted any updates since your last comment, I can only assume that is the case.

Yes, it's working now, and has been since those first 2.

 

[habanero69]

How do you get a TOU meter? From their superb website, it doesn't exist except in a few brief sentences, and no place does it say how to order. Plus, it says the smart meter has a single LCD display, while the TOU has many (perhaps 6 it says), so I know I don't have one. I can see my normal energy portal from my account page and hr/day/month usage, but unless I'm credited for TOU, its not much help in lowering anything... I hate to blind call them.

 

[aviators99]

It is a long and difficult process to sign up for TOU and then they will bring you the meter (which you have to pay extra for). You wouldn't have it unless you sign up. You *should* "blind call" them and ask about signing up for TOU, if you really want to do so, but beware of the fact that it may not save you money. This summer it has cost me more than without it. But if you do call, please let us know here if they know what you are talking about. It will be useful to know when they get their customer service sorted out. If they don't know what you're talking about, and you really still want to do it, I might be able to help.

 

[LeoJ]

It is a long and difficult process to sign up for TOU and then they will bring you the meter (which you have to pay extra for). You wouldn't have it unless you sign up. You *should* "blind call" them and ask about signing up for TOU, if you really want to do so, but beware of the fact that it may not save you money. This summer it has cost me more than without it. But if you do call, please let us know here if they know what you are talking about. It will be useful to know when they get their customer service sorted out. If they don't know what you're talking about, and you really still want to do it, I might be able to help.

My experience with FPL TOU tracks with what aviator99 posted. You have to pay for the meter and, in my case, there was an increase in my monthly usage vs the residential meter. Here is where there was discussion on this on an earlier posting and my reply to it. If you call Tammy on it, she no longer works in that section but she should be able to direct you to a knowledgeable person.

Florida Power & Light: Off Peak vs On Peak and Meter Installation


I was on it for 3 months but didn't work for me even though I was able to shift 2/3 of my usage to off-peak. My FPL bill under TOU increased. There was a monthly charge of $11.90 for the meter but there was no disconnect charge when I reverted last month back from TOU (RTR-1) to RS-1. Call Tammy Franklin at FPL 1-800-749-2285 ext 25 as she will answer most questions for you and, if you like, set you up for TOU.

 

[habanero69]

It is a long and difficult process to sign up for TOU and then they will bring you the meter (which you have to pay extra for). You wouldn't have it unless you sign up. You *should* "blind call" them and ask about signing up for TOU, if you really want to do so, but beware of the fact that it may not save you money. This summer it has cost me more than without it. But if you do call, please let us know here if they know what you are talking about. It will be useful to know when they get their customer service sorted out. If they don't know what you're talking about, and you really still want to do it, I might be able to help.

Thanks. If you're not having any success with saving, that sort of deflates my making any effort. I know it would vary house to house, but I don't have much of a real peak load anyway. The car, other than when blasting the air and/or cooking AND maybe drying, all at peak time are probably nil... I was thinking if doing the car only at off peak, which I would be doing by default at night mostly anyway, would save a fair amount, I would do. The meter probably has a several year payback or something and I'm not really keen on that.

 

[aviators99]

I would still suggest calling the main number and asking about it, just so that we can see if they've solved their problems.

 

[aviators99]

Thanks. If you're not having any success with saving, that sort of deflates my making any effort. I know it would vary house to house, but I don't have much of a real peak load anyway. The car, other than when blasting the air and/or cooking AND maybe drying, all at peak time are probably nil... I was thinking if doing the car only at off peak, which I would be doing by default at night mostly anyway, would save a fair amount, I would do. The meter probably has a several year payback or something and I'm not really keen on that.

I'm definitely having success in the fall/winter. But if you're doing it just for the car (at 60kWh, even), forget it. It's such a small amount, compared to A/C, Cooking, and Drying.

 

[Darryl]

Another item that has a major impact on my electric bill is the irrigation pump.