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Letter from George - 12/17/2011

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Mycroft, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    *Directly addressing Fisker's price increase I think.

    It's very key that he spelled out that the pricing will apply to current reservation holders. So at some point there will be a line drawn and new prices posted.

    "next few weeks" sure makes December 22nd not looking good. :(
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I think that's to be expected. Prices do and can go up over time, so considering 2012 is all sold out, new orders will likely take delivery in late 2013, more than a year after the first deliveries. I'd think that would constitute a new model year and price increases would be acceptable. Keeping to the price they've been advertising for the last few years though is impressive. Hopefully that doesn't come at the cost of being nickle and dimed (too much) elsewhere.

    Also, the "shortly" means to me that we will in fact likely be getting pricing next week. I think there will be much more on top of that to follow though. The design center update, likely coinciding with the Model X reveal in February, sounds like one of those things. It would also constitute "next few months"
     
  3. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    So delivery is still scheduled to start mid 2012. And we now have a more official statement about the battery sizes being 40 kWh, 60 kWh, and 85 kWh (if we didn't already). It also sounds like a few things may not be exactly what we were hoping for ;), unless I'm reading too much into it. And it seems to be asking for a bit of patience until all the little details are determined, with some information coming sooner than other.
     
  4. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

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    This is perhaps overly simplistic but if 40 kWh battery gets you 160 miles of range (4 miles per kWh) and a 60 kWh battery gets you 230 miles of range (10 mile range penalty for the added weight of the additional cells?), why wouldn't the 85kWh battery yield 330 miles of range (4 miles per kWh minus 10 mile range penalty for a full battery pack)? Do they want to under-promise and over-deliver on the 85kWh pack since those are the first ones rolling off the line?
     
  5. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    What stuck out to me is that they are reaffirming the base pricing, but for the larger packs only mentioned their commitment to timing, not the aforementioned $10k increases, so what are the chances that we will see different prices there? Maybe $10k to 60 kWh but $12.5k to go from 60 to 85?

    Also, I agree with WhiteKnight's post: why wouldn't the 85kWh battery yield 330 miles of range? Are they de-emphasizing a claimed range and just going with kWh for accuracy?
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Hmm, the only thing I'm reading into that is that they're not quoting "mile packs" like they traditionally have. They're saying 85kWh instead of 300 mile. This could end up being good if they think it will yield more than 300 but don't want to spill the beans just yet. It could also be bad if they're sure the EPA will knock them down to say, 280. In that case, they wouldn't be omitting the mile to hold back for a bigger announcement, but more to ease into damage control.

    That would be nice :smile:
     
  7. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Well, if you include another "weight penalty" for the largest pack, proportionally, then you get to those 310, if not 320, miles of range which we heard about as a potential.
     
  8. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    I think they'll stick with the promised $10k steps.

    My understanding is that the 85kWh pack is about the same weight as the 60. The difference is a better technology.

    I am proud of Tesla that they were able to keep the pricing over a three year period.
     
  9. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Yes, could be they are switching to more directly measurable terms for battery size.

    The question is whether "releasing U.S. pricing for Model S shortly" and "more detailed U.S. Model S pricing and options packages in the next few weeks" refer to two separate events or the same one. In the first case, there might be a change, in the second case there might be only additional information. In any case, I guess we'll know soon enough.
     
  10. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I suppose it could be final pricing, including generic packages like sport, 85kWh pack etc, and then, a bit later, even more detailed like what it would cost to get the pano roof on its own, the bigger wheels, aero wheels etc
     
  11. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Or it means that the prices for signature and regular reservation holders will be the same. Or that my english isn't good enough to parse letters like that. ;)
     
  12. Jkam

    Jkam Member

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    Wasn't there some talk after the October event that the range they were getting was indeed over 300 miles, closer to 320 miles?
     
  13. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    Only with the special aero wheels.
     
  14. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Either way, if the EPA makes them cut the advertised range...
     
  15. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    The only thing I'm reading into it is the base model price will be set in stone for the release. Even if that's a slight loss for them, I think it's smart PR since most cars won't be bought bare bones anyway and the bulk of their sales will probably come after a potential price raise in 2013 is politically viable.

    I think we're in the lull before the storm. There will be options announced, some pricing, the February call, the Model X unveil, then they start contacting folks for test drives early spring, the other Fremont events mentioned, etc. Starting in January and going through release, it'll be a steady stream of fairly meaty stuff. The last 75 days have been fairly barren on details because I suspect they've simply been cranking through stuff since the Oct 1st event.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'm glad to see that the 300 mile pack is 85 kWh. Some people were thinking it might be 95. That would take even longer to charge.
     
  17. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    Wouldn't it be great if at the 2012 Fremont Factory Event they allowed us to get behind the wheel and take it out on that track?
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Yeah, all 2000 of us.
     
  19. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    Or at least the signature holders. I want an open parking lot with one damp section that I could have some fun in.:biggrin:
     
  20. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Or even 100-100kWh according to Paul Eisenstein. I wonder if he'll admit he was incorrect with his estimates now and print a new story.
     

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