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Letter to Mr. Musk from a 1-day old outdated Model S owner

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by phaduman, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. phaduman

    phaduman Member

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    I am thrilled to see the progress Tesla is making on the new Model S/X/3 towards full autonomous vehicles. I am very disheartened that I bought (not leased, as I think Model S is a car worth 10yr of supremely enjoyable ownership) a $90K Model S brand new from your factory on Tuesday (18th Oct) that is already "outdated" and perhaps has a significant devaluation. When I put the deposit for this car in September, I even bought TSLA stock as I believe in the future Tesla has. But my car is no longer a "futuristic" car.

    What I am most disheartened about is the fact that I waited so long to finally buy the dream car, and the excitement didn't last more than 24hours :-((.

    I would like for Mr. Musk to consider this request not just for my case, but likely for many of those new car buyers that bought the X and S in the last quarter (Q3), and offer them some options:

    (1) return vehicles with < 1K miles and refund the full money
    (2) give them a "credit" for trade-in (e.g. $10K) to account for the devaluation that just happened
    (3) even better option:
    - offer the NVIDIA/compute upgrade for all AP1.0 cars
    - optionally include the tri-camera h/w upgrade

    The reason #3 is valuable in that, (a) you will instantly win the hearts of all your early adopters and supporters. (b) you will get a chance to remove all MBLEYE chipsets from all Teslas. This will help your firmware and s/w team to deliver code on one platform, whether AP1 or APX cars. Trust me - I have been in silicon valley for 18yrs and managed projects where engineers had to support code on multiple gen of platforms and it impacted the performance, time, and quality of the final delivery by at least 30% - and allowed newcomers to gain upper hand with faster releases with a single new platform.

    Thoughts for your Area 51 (Yes we did the tour and it was cool to see the name :)) leaders:

    - when next-gen AP s/w is ready, also make it work with Gen1 AP sensors (1-camera, 1-radar, low-sensitive sonars, backup camera possibly)
    - offer a one-time service fee to replace the MBLEYE compute chipsets

    Now, you have 3 tiers of sensors the NVIDIA chipsets & s/w will work with:
    (1) gen-1 sensors: 1-camera, 1-radar, gen-1 sonars, and (un)likely backup camera
    (2a) gen-2 APE sensors: 4 cameras, 1 radar, 12 new sonars
    (3b) gen-2 APF sensors: the full array of cameras

    In my opinion, the NVIDIA is ready for even more in the future. Some thoughts:

    (3) gen-3 APF2 sensors (future, likely 2yrs from now, Oct 2018 would be my guess :)): quite likely you may need to run another parallel channel of radar based sensors on the 4 corners of the car (or elsewhere) to account for visibility-challenged situations when the 360-cameras may not do the job (e.g. foggy mornings in Germany autobahns, general winter situations in New England & Nordics; tropical heavy rain downpour situations in Florida - these are the times when the humans are at even worse condition to have a safe driving situation. We want invisible eyes (radars/sonars) to take over when cameras(eyes) can't. This will be true victory for Tesla/autonomy. I don't have stats about accidents that occur during during good visibility days, and when weather conditions are poor. I have a feeling many accidents occur during poor visibility conditions. You are a stats man - you will know these already (accidents/deaths from Dec-April, vs. May-Nov, in NE area).

    (4) gen-4 APF3 activators: now that Tesla cars and occupants are safe, it is time to make the world a bit safer for non-Tesla drivers. e.g. Gen1-4 h/w above likely cannot avoid a rear-ending if the car/driver behind is distracted (texting). How about the rear camera/sensor not only senses the vehicle speed behind and notes the rate of acceleration difference between that car and the Tesla, but also has a rear-pointing honk/bright flashing lights/laser lights/radio-jamming RF transmitters etc to communicate with the driver behind to get their attention. We might just save a rear-ending accident situation (assuming the Tesla cannot make last minute maneuver to get out of the lane altogether, sometimes that may not be possible).

    (5) Gen-5: all cloud intelligence that sends to each vehicle (whether Tesla or not) the other cars conditions on the road so they become "social" cars after all and can maintain a better distance/space between each other, all from a "cloud" connected central nervous system. I know your team is already working on the central neural networks, and even Gen-1 cars will likely benefit from this over time, but it is time to make the whole world a better place, not just the Teslas on the road. I assume in about 10yrs from now, hopefully, 10% of the cars in the world would be Teslas. The rest 90% can still have their own sensors to protect from local instantaneous dangerous situations, but they could benefit by having a central nervous system (in the cloud) that can exchange real-time update of "vehicles" near me that are beyond visibility (beyond 250m).


    Mr. Musk,
    Would you please bring along the Gen-1 car owners, your most loyal and devoted fans, with you as you journey into the future? Would you consider this request?

    Your newest fan (1-day old AP1.0 Gen Model S owner) and likely speaking on behalf of all AP1.0 car owners
    PN, San Jose, CA
     
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  2. maximus16

    maximus16 Member

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    To me, it is no different than GM coming out with the 2015.5MY 6 months after the introduction of the 2015 models with a new 8 speed transmissions. Were those people mad? You betcha! Did GM do anything, absolutely not. Just apart of moving forward.. sucks but its worth it in the end. If they announced every product change ahead of time, they would never sell a vehicle...
     
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  3. outie

    outie Active Member

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    I have to disagree with the last statement. For example, BMW just announced the new 5 series. We all know that doesn't arrive yet, but soon. People have a choice to buy a discounted model right now, or wait for the new model and pay MSRP. In the case of Tesla? You pay MSRP for the outdated tech. They sure know they were going to release AP2 this month but did a big push in Q3. Sure some received discounts in that push for inventory cars, but not everyone bought inventory. I wouldn't mind delaying my delivery for 1 month if I knew. Not good for Tesla if they announced it beforehand, but now it's not good for me. We all knew AP2 was coming but no one knew when. Yes I know this is what you get for driving a Tesla, so it is what it is.
     
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  4. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Doubt it...you are not speaking for me (an AP 1.0 owner.)
     
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  5. Newscutter

    Newscutter Member

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    I'm calling BS on this.

    You're so devoted that you waited 2+ years after the Model S came out to buy one??

    SERIOUSLY??!

    What about all of us who bought the cars before Autopilot? Tesla/Musk didn't do anything for us-- and leasing wasn't even an OPTION back then.

    We got exactly the car we paid for--
    AS. DID. YOU.

    If Tesla wants to do ANYTHING to help their original customer base, they can start with the Roadster owners. I'll wait in line behind them-- and the Autopilot 1.0/Dual motor owners can jolly well get in line behind us.
     
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  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Encore une fois...

    This is just how Tesla rolls, sometimes you get unlucky and fall just short of an update. This happens with every major update.
     
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  7. maximus16

    maximus16 Member

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    @outie I cant disagree with this but if someone wanted annual changes, they should of bought a Bolt. I went in knowing full well something would change the day after forking over the check and it did for me, the 85 pack was discontinued a week later. On top of that, the refreshed front end came out ~4/5 months later).
    Also, he announced this event ahead of time (10 days), he could of denied delivery and reordered if one were that worried.
     
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  8. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    People were similarly angry when they just missed parking sensors or Autopilot or the facelift. And no doubt there will be people with the new hardware which will just miss the next version. If Tesla was going to give compensation they would have given it already. The best case scenario is Tesla offers retrofits (for a price). No way they offer any sort of compensation for a feature they didn't promise in the first place when selling the vehicle to you.

    Keep in mind the cars with the new hardware will go some time missing the standard autopilot features (they don't have the software yet to support it). Plus the price is higher. The previous Autopilot was $2500 or $3000 (depending on when you got it). The new one is $5000 for the basic and $8000 for autonomous.
     
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  9. DMC-Orangeville

    DMC-Orangeville 85D and John Deere 5100E

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    ....me neither.....
     
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  10. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    lol are you high?
     
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  11. Electric700

    Electric700 Active Member

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    #11 Electric700, Oct 20, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Phaduman are you sure you don't have the new systems on your car, in which case all you'd need is a software update to enable Level 5 Autopilot (once regulations allow this)? Tesla may well have started adding the new hardware before your Model S was built.

    Also, it could easily become very problematic and expensive for Tesla to offer core hardware upgrades on older cars after every major release such as this one. If it turns out that you don't have the new hardware and as such are extremely unhappy, return the car and order a new one. Under the law, I believe you do have a few days to return a car after purchasing one. Plus, Tesla has a satisfaction guarantee.
     
  12. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    You bought the stock because you think Tesla is futuristic and complain when they come up with new hardware. hm.
     
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  13. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    Manufacturers introduce new/upgraded products all the time. They don't usually announce them until they are ready (look at Apple for a good example). They don't announce ahead of time to avoid the "Osborne effect". (Osborne computer famously announced a new version of their computer six months early and all of their cash flow predictably dried up and they went belly up.)
    Everyone has "known" that they would be introducing AP 2.0 at the end of the year. They announced this at the Model 3 reveal. We didn't have specifics but it was pretty easy to figure out.
    All tech products have this problem. If you wait for it to be "perfected" then you will wait forever. If you buy now, you should understand that what you buy will be obsolete down the road. (My father resisted buying a color TV for many years; waiting for them to be perfected... we eventually got one but, of course, they continued to get better.)
     
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  14. jdw

    jdw Supporting Member

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    An hour after I picked up my 85D, the 90D was announced. However, I did get the new roof and LTE as a nice surprise. Point is, this is just what Tesla is about.
     
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  15. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Active Member

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    There was a line pause first week of October .... very likely your car has the new hw if built after that. I suspect this is why they sold off all the inventory in September. You should look at the front camera housing and see if you have 3 cameras.
     
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  16. outie

    outie Active Member

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    He didn't say what the event was about. There were so much discussion here saying how AP2 is not a product etc. I would say the issue is that they are not giving a chance for people to make an informed decision.
     
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  17. gameon

    gameon Member

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    you can cry a river but it is not going change (same with cell phone or any technology)

    Model S is very advance car for now. Elon musk should focus more on 25k/200m car but he needs money to make it happen hence all this upgrade. It is like throwing free candies to attract more kids.
     
  18. GridSpace

    GridSpace Member

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    Tesla is accelerating the pace of automotive innovation, which has been sorely lacking / absent for too long. Your top of the line Tesla is like a top of the line PC during the hottest hardware advances ... it's going to be out of date and worth a whole lot less within 6 months no matter what. Just do not expect to retain the $$$ value. If that was your thought going in, then you aren't paying attention.
     
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  19. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Regret by Tesla buyers who missed out by one day, one week, one month, the latest and greatest Tesla hardware is a recurring theme on TMC for years now.

    There is no other sensible way for Tesla to handle hardware upgrades then the way they are currently doing it. They cannot announce them in advance without seriously hurting their revenue and causing huge production problems. They cannot offer owners some kind of monetary compensation because they will then have to specify a date/time cutoff and the people who just miss that cutoff will complain in just the same way that the OP complains.

    To the OP: you received exactly the car you paid for. It is an awesome car. Enjoy it. You are very fortunate to be able to afford it and it will give you many years of driving pleasure.
     
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  20. MichFin

    MichFin Member

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    I've said this for the last few months... Don't buy a Tesla ... Lease it. The technology is moving so fast that in a few years you're going to want to upgrade anyway. I bought my Model S July 2015 and I've already missed out on many desirable features besides Autopilot 2.0. Deal with it... It's part of living in the future now.
     
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